Champagne Weather: The Beauty of the Unfinished

Christina sits down with acclaimed Canadian musicians James Hill and Anne Janelle of Champagne Weather to talk about making music in the moment, embracing the unfinished, and letting an audience become part of the creative process. Their music is a wildly creative blend of chamber folk, improvisation and musical experimentation, with ukelele and cello at its core. They chat about their journey from classical and folk roots into improvisation, the trust that comes with years of collaboration, and what happens when you leave a little room for the unexpected.

Learn more about Champagne Weather at champagneweather.com.

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Christina (00:00.238)
Hi, welcome to a Chatwith Heart podcast. I'm your host, Christina Martin. I'm a singer-songwriter. I live on a dirt road in rural Nova Scotia with my best friend Dale and our calico cat, Olivia. This podcast is totally just a chill chat with heart. As soon as you tune in here, I consider you one of my little heartbeat listeners. I love sharing these personal stories, and recording these episodes are great practice for me to try and calm the fuck down.

Christina (00:30.188)
Just be myself. If we just talk We could shut it, we could make a day of day if we just talk.

We can make a better day

Christina (00:55.896)
Hi everyone, welcome back to a chat with heart podcast. I'm Christina Martin, and today I am chatting with Champagne Weather. But first, a ramble from me. You know, I'm having a great time. I am busy. Busy, busy, busy. I don't know what happened in the last decade, I guess a pandemic, but

I feel like it's been a decade since I've had this much energy and yet not still not feeling really overwhelmed. which was I feel like I went through a period, maybe some of you can relate, and maybe it was the pandemic and maybe it was COVID. I don't know. Maybe it was my depression. Could be a lot of maybes. What I'm trying to say here, folks, is that sometimes

to get to the good stuff, it's gonna take a little longer. That's what I'm saying. So hey anyway, I'm excited about the things I'm writing and collaborating on with others. Dale and I have been polishing off some recordings. This weekend we're actually driving into Halifax to record a horn section live and really excited about that for a new song called Nothing But Love.

Yeah, there there's some other fun collabs in the works. I'm not gonna say too much more about it, because really the best thing to do is just show you when it's ready. If you're following me on Patreon, you'll hear about it perhaps on a more regular basis. By the way, Patreon, you can join as a free member or a paid member. get all the free newsletter updates by by visiting me on my Patreon page. I think it's patreon.com backslash Christina Martin Music, maybe?

Anyway, it's not hard to find. It's on my website, Christina Martin.net, all the links. I do have a couple sh upcoming shows to tell you about, but first, what you all really care about is our cats, maybe and Olivia, and how they're getting along is amazingly. if if you want to see proof of that, just visit my Instagram because now it's turned into just cat videos and pictures. and I'm cool with that.

Christina (03:17.13)
Sometimes I sort of feel like a little bit of a not a failure, but like I used you know, I used to post music things and now it's just my cat. Both my cats. that's the person I am right now. It'll change, maybe. Get it? Maybe segue into maybe our little wobbly kitten is doing amazing. She's here in my lap right now, just kinda staring at the computer.

in a very soft blanket and she's very happy. Gosh, I love her so much. We love her. Olivia loves her. She's constantly playing and cleaning maybe. Ali this is adorable. Maybe goes to the bathroom and like she does that thing that cats do, you know, where they try to cover what they've done. And she can't she doesn't quite o she doesn't quite hit the mark. But I mean she hits the mark in that she's litter trained. It's all good and it's

Very organized, but she can't cover it up herself. So Olivia will come in. This is so cute. And this is love. This is true love. Olivia will cover up the mess. For maybe, because she's not able to. Isn't that amazing? In any case, I do have a couple shows coming up. October 23rd. We haven't really announced this yet, but because you're listening to the podcast, you're gonna get the the the intel.

Dale and I are playing a house concert at our lovely friend Pam and Alan Samson on the South Shore, Nova Scotia. Contact me if you want in details on how to get tickets to that October 23rd house concert at Pam and Allen's. It's always a great time. Here's a sneak preview, everybody, because it's definitely not announced yet, but it will be in a couple days. On October 24th, we are having a Canadian tuxedo party presented by Toler.

at the Marquee in Halifax. So it's gonna be a a incredible lineup of of local performers and a hot band and we're playing all Canadian hits. So it's all covers. do the Canadian tuxedo if you come. Yeah, denim on denim on denim is like my fave. So it's gonna be an all ages event, which is really exciting.

Christina (05:41.068)
Youth are absolutely welcome as long as they're accompanied by an adult. More details coming soon. Tickets will be available through Ticket Pro on my website. September 23rd, everybody. Tickets will go on sale. so let's let's fill it up. It's gonna be a blast. Little bitty housekeeping as well. I think the Heartbeat Hotline, which I've had since year one. This is year five, season five of a Chat With Heart podcast. The the Chatwith Heart podcast

Heartbeat hotline. that what I started is a phone number that you can call and leave a message. Some people have, not many have. It's I think it's probably officially retired. Like don't call it. We're gonna pull it out of the we're gonna pull it out of the intro here soon. In the outro. But instead, I want you to just email me, send me a voice note.

Send me a message, ask me anything. Tell me something funny. Tell me what's going on in your life. Ask me a question about music or touring or cats or getting older, whatever the hell you want. I love including these messages and voice notes in future episodes. Just send me an email, Christina Martin Music at gmail.com, with your question or your voice note or whatever you want.

And it might get shared on the on the podcast. Kinda like this message from Judy. Judy from Beaver Lodge. and I guess Judy came to my show at the Beaver Lodge Library when I did the home roots tour a couple years back. And I was delighted to receive this message. So I'm gonna play it for you and and we'll chat about it after.

Anne (07:34.082)
Hi Christina Martin. I think you remember me from last year. Judy. You're a big f I'm your biggest fan. And also I'm gonna say Christina that I love your music. And I hope you come back to Be Launch.

Anne (07:55.326)
at the library in be lunch. And also I'm gonna say that my favorite song of yours is Storm and Two Hearts. I hope you sing those two songs I liked. And also I hope you come like some t someday like on my birthdays like on my sixteenth sweet birthday to see me.

Because I love your music so so much. I listen to your music like every day.

Christina (08:35.278)
Hi Judy from Beaver Lodge. First of all, thank you so much for the lovely message that you sent. I wanna wish you an early happy birthday. I know your birthday's in January because I emailed you and asked. Unfortunately, Judy, I won't be able to make it to Beaver Lodge for a while, if ever. I just don't wanna string you along. It's so far away that it was such a unique and awesome experience.

an opportunity that we had to be there in the same space together at that one time. So thank you for coming to the show. And I'm so glad you enjoy my music. And thank you for your message. And I hope you keep listening and send me a message again anytime. Okay, so I'd love to start including more messages like Judy's and voice notes in future episodes of a chat with heart. So please send them my way. Christina Martin Music at gmail.com.

Okay, on today's guests, Champagne Weather is James Hill and Anne Janelle, Canadian Folk Music Award winners, Juno nominees, and two incredibly awesome humans. They're my friends. Their music is kind of hard to put neatly into a box, which is awesome. These two bring together folk music, songwriting, and improvisation with cello, ukulele. Am I saying that right, James?

Ukulele. Ukulele. Ukulele. Ukulele, as I learned how to say it growing up. Violin and even some scent thrown into the mix. Their music creates like this beautiful, ever changing world of sound, where they they even don't necessarily know where it's going. this obviously gives us a lot to talk about. So I love this extended episode.

enough rambling here for me so you can hear more rambling and awesome chat with heart in this episode. Enjoy James Hill and Ann Janelle of Champagne Weather, and please visit their website, champagneweather.com, for more information and tickets to their incredible shows.

Christina (10:54.534)
We should do an audio described intro just in case this is just too good for people not to know what's going on right now. I have my cat Olivia, our two two year old, licking my hands on a little footstool in front of me, licking herself. And then James has our little Maybelline who's now two months old, and now he's she's he's transferring Maybelline over to Anne.

They're on the couch at our place. They're at our home studio. Welcome to a chat with heart podcast.

James (11:28.22)
Thank you. Thanks for the play by play.

Anne (11:30.603)
What a welcome.

Christina (11:31.79)
now if she gets too chatty or wobbly, we can put her upstairs in her play pen.

James (11:41.929)
Doesn't sound like any fun at all.

Christina (11:43.411)
Where's she going?

Anne (11:45.206)
Christina (11:46.294)
Yeah, she likes to hide. Do you guys ever like to

Anne (11:49.422)
Hide.

James (11:50.296)
That's me. My my spirit guide is a mole. That I just all I wanna do is crawl under things. that's all we

Christina (11:54.122)
Is it a mall?

Christina (12:00.118)
Yeah.

Anne (12:01.358)
But is it is it to hide or just because you're comfortable there?

Christina (12:08.066)
Or just so tired that you Yeah.

James (12:10.434)
These are great ideas. I do just wanna like tunnel under things and that's where I feel at home. So why am I on stage as a musician? I don't know.

Christina (12:24.534)
Yeah, that is interesting. I mean let's go back to let's let's hone in on that. Okay. Why would we decide to do this thing that most people find terrifying? Like public speaking? Are you kidding me? What about expressing your utmost most personal experiences and feelings? Like really, really opening up

James (12:46.37)
Mm-hmm.

Christina (12:52.706)
being naked on stage. Not not literally, but kind of. Mm-hmm. Why have we It's worse than naked. Why have we done this? And how did we did you have to go through e both of you, like a period of your life where you had to just were you ever terrified on stage?

James (12:57.854)
It's worse than naked.

James (13:11.852)
Terrified is the wrong word. Uncomfortable, I would say. Yeah. I mean it's only recently that I feel like I mm mm-hmm no longer care. Yeah. So that brings a kind of a freedom. But it's not it's different than being comfortable. It's a little different. No longer care. I don't know what you you're different though. You're you're not the same way. You you your spirit guide is a I don't know, unicorn or something.

Christina (13:36.022)
Were you born on a stage?

Anne (13:37.838)
I I no, I wasn't, but I've always enjoyed performing. I have. I've always liked the opportunity to share and to be like in conversation with an audience. I've I've performed I mean I grew up playing classical music, so I

I was on a stage at a very young age and yeah, I don't I don't know. And it was often part of a big group, so it wasn't a super terrifying thing. And I play cello, so it's never like the melody and so it's usually an accompaniment kind of supportive role. but yeah, I don't I I I've not felt terrified by performing. And I feel to answer your first question about hiding, like

To me I've had the opposite experience where I actually am like wanting to continue the reveal. Like it's I keep on like opening little chambers in my heart or or peeling off layers of myself. Like that's that seems to be my artistic journey.

James (14:54.816)
And and being on stage actually helps with that?

Anne (14:58.092)
Well, I think that being on stage does help with that because when I bring one of the things I love about performing is that I I can take a thing that I created, probably in in my pajamas somewhere, at home and then bring it into the world and then have feedback on that

on that piece. And to me, the creation of anything is very collaborative. And so I find that the work is not done when I present the song on stage. Like that's that's just one other step of the creation process. And then you see, well what resonated, what didn't, how can I continue to modify this so that it ideally can connect more and more meaningfully with people.

James (15:49.422)
Yeah, I never really thought about that, but like you know, when I say I like to tunnel under the earth and be happy there, that's where I feel most comfortable. It what I'm trying to say is what I really want to do is sit in the studio in the middle of the night, two or three, four in the morning, when there's no phone calls and there's no light and there's no sound and there's no expectations, and my brain is so tired that I cannot even

lift a finger to edit myself and I just let myself go and do the craziest stuff musically that I've ever done in my life. Though that's where I feel really that's what I love. That's that's that's my f that's my fun, you know really? I was trying to I was trying to talk it up.

Christina (16:28.268)
You enjoy?

Christina (16:32.366)
Wow, that sounds torturous.

yeah, I've I'll try that tonight, James. Yeah, you're right. We sleep when you're dead.

James (16:40.63)
Yeah. Or I could just sleep.

That's right. But but it's in w when you said, you know, the idea that like when you perform the song, it's the beginning of a conversation rather than like, here's a thing I baked earlier. The idea that performing is the beginning of the conversation just reinforces my point because the studio is kind of like your brain. Like you're in your brain, the security of your own mind and your own thoughts. And then when you go on stage it's like now you're talking it out.

Christina (17:15.349)
Uh-huh.

James (17:15.97)
the you're so much more vulnerable out on stage. And so yeah, that's exactly how I feel. I feel like I want to stay in my head, where it's safe. and the minute I start speaking I feel like I you know, I I could be wrong. I could be wrong.

Christina (17:29.206)
You could be wrong.

Anne (17:31.202)
But I feel like the interesting thing about what we've started to do, and I don't know, you're probably gonna get there soon, Christina.

Christina (17:39.864)
Probably won't. This is my first question, I didn't even ask it and it's not anything to do with this. And this is perfect. This is great. This is a chat with her.

James (17:45.262)
Yeah.

Anne (17:49.406)
Yes. It's definitely a chat. Well I was just about to talk about our new band project, Champagne Weather, which is the first time that we've actually written songs together. And so one of the big benefits of that is that I feel that's the start of the conversation now in the creative process because

Christina (17:52.494)
Take this there.

Anne (18:13.142)
Now there are two people in the room instead of just one person with their own thoughts, then you know, at least you have two perspectives and like check and balance and and sweet ways of knowing. Yeah. Or or just well, we do have vastly different musical perspectives too, which is most

Christina (18:36.214)
Well you wouldn't be Champagne weather if you didn't. But th I was wondering about that how 'cause you've had your own individual paths with music and music industry and so what was it like behind the scenes like w was there must have been many conversations or was there just one where you're like, let's just do this together? Let's just like when when did that happen and how did you get here? Yeah. 'Cause it's pretty

James (18:39.862)
That's right.

Christina (19:05.418)
It's pretty can we swear on this? It's pretty fuck it's pretty fucking awesome. I've seen it, it's captivating, it's f it's une un unexpec unexpected. Like I you know, I'm sitting there watching you, I don't know what's coming next. I love what comes next. it's entrancing. Is that a word? Sure. I'm entranced when I'm watching you perform live.

James (19:26.188)
That it's a word.

James (19:31.896)
Well, we're in trance too, which is part of the fun of this project.

Christina (19:35.318)
You're having fun? It looks like fun. Yeah, yeah.

James (19:38.254)
It's a funny word, but yeah, there's there's definitely a fun about it.

Anne (19:38.52)
Funny.

Anne (19:43.202)
Well do before we get into the doing of it, maybe let's talk about that. I mean I I'm I'm

Christina (19:47.608)
Keep us on track, man.

I also wanna know how you actually met. Like that I wanna know those two I wanna know b okay, I want Anne, can you bring us back to answer both of these? I wanna know how like your love if you are in fact in love, if you your origin love story, how you and and then the good, the bad, the ugly. And then I wanna know how when you guys are like, why don't we just do this? This is fun. Champagne weather.

Anne (19:56.268)
Not the topic.

James (20:20.354)
That's a mm.

Christina (20:21.566)
And why it wasn't called why didn't call it what was it? Tingle City?

Anne (20:28.158)
Why is it not called tickle?

James (20:29.608)
That should be somebody's band name but

Christina (20:31.011)
Ready.

Anne (20:33.102)
Okay.

James (20:35.738)
We've been talking about this exact thing with our son who's eleven years old. He's just about to turn eleven and he's now asking us this very same question.

Anne (20:39.208)
that's true.

Christina (20:45.088)
What? How you

Anne (20:46.082)
How did we get together?

James (20:47.534)
How do you

Were was she your girlfriend? You know, all these questions that are

Anne (20:53.998)
Do you have a crush on her? yeah. Well it's an it's an evolving conversation.

Christina (21:02.52)
Okay, we'll hear and and then Alder will listen to this. Maybe like yeah, is Alder okay with swearing?

Anne (21:06.388)
totally.

James (21:11.219)
he'll be okay with you swearing.

Christina (21:13.91)
Okay, I apologize, but it is sort of sometimes comes out part of my natural rhythm, but not there may not be another curse word now that I know that.

James (21:23.214)
Cursing with hard

Anne (21:23.8)
So good.

Christina (21:25.23)
Yeah, cursing with heart. That's what this should have been called, this podcast. Okay. And keep us organized. Keep us on the track.

Anne (21:31.798)
Okay, okay I'm gonna start answering the question.

James (21:34.294)
Okay, and I'll jump in i in the most annoying way possible.

Anne (21:37.74)
Fabulous. Very out of character.

James (21:40.144)
You don't know if you're joking.

Christina (21:42.807)
I'm sorry.

Anne (21:43.87)
anyways, we definitely met at the University of British Columbia. Okay.

James (21:50.264)
No

Christina (21:52.534)
It was St. Mary's University

Anne (21:54.264)
Was no. So we're both originally from the West Coast and yeah, we did our music degree at the University of British Columbia. the first time we met I hired James for a gig. so that kind of set up the paradynamic from day one.

James (22:09.109)
Sideman.

Christina (22:14.744)
Sound familiar, Dale? Big smile on Dale's face. Okay. You paid him to hang out with you.

James (22:15.992)
Goodness.

Yeah.

Anne (22:21.812)
Yeah, it was just like it was just a a super like it was like a background music gig. Anyway, yeah, we ended up meeting kind of in orchestra, I would say. And then it was it was an interesting situation because I didn't actually know that James played the ukulele at all. it was such a side project.

James (22:48.289)
In my favor at that point.

Christina (22:50.264)
Right. Really trying to get rid of that reputation.

James (22:53.9)
Like follows you like

Anne (22:54.874)
but yeah we were we were a couple right away? Fair no, not right away. Like after a couple of years we I well I was dating somebody else, so I was not available.

Christina (23:05.762)
Wait a second.

James (23:10.37)
This is part of the conversation we're having.

Christina (23:12.152)
yeah, that's right.

Anne (23:12.922)
So I was I was not available and then I became available. Cool. And then we started dating. I asked you.

Christina (23:22.176)
Who has to out?

James (23:25.486)
Yeah, because I w I was really missed out is what I'm trying to say. I'm I was really on a different planet. I was I was underground. I mean I was literally Yeah

Christina (23:28.216)
Good with the girls.

Christina (23:36.812)
You were in the little mole. Were you attracted to her? Did you even she was put on your radar?

James (23:42.75)
I'm I was like, you know, I got two eyes in my head but like Well and she was unavailable and so I I I I'm a good guy, right? So I'm I'm not gonna I'm not gonna steal her away. But at all but mostly I just had my head so far in the sand, working on my little projects and thinking what I was doing was important and you know that

Christina (23:50.531)
You're a good guy.

Christina (23:55.064)
Feel

Christina (24:05.294)
That's why you're so good at what you do. It's cool.

James (24:07.658)
It's a double edged sword to like devote yourself to something that is so inward looking for so long and then have to be sort of pulled out into the world by by someone and that someone was Anne.

Christina (24:22.776)
That was lovely. Did you

James (24:24.27)
Pulled out into the world? Isn't that a very lovely kicking and screaming. Out of your self concept. Out of your little perfect snow globe that you were building. And to have somebody take you by the hand and say, No, no, like that that's not real.

Christina (24:27.054)
Yeah,

Anne (24:28.428)
My

Christina (24:31.886)
I think we know what you mean.

Anne (24:35.256)
Yeah.

Christina (24:45.398)
Yeah, this is real and then you should take it to a rave or what? What did you

James (24:49.102)
Right. I think we we went to Dairy Queen.

Anne (24:53.932)
No, we went to Choo Choo's restaurant.

James (24:58.882)
Go around. I remember Dairy Queen though because there was a little they used to have this game where it was a fish bowl filled with like jello and there was a shot glass in the bottom and if you pa if you dropped a coin in and it went in the shot glass, you would get a free banana split. And it's like physically, I think if you do the math, it's like impossible because the coin will go through the jello in a very unpredictable way. You never know what path it's gonna take, and it's almost certainly not

going to land in the shot glass and it did. On our first day three banana split. Whoa.

Christina (25:33.806)
On your date.

They've made

Anne (25:40.238)
Yeah.

Christina (25:41.326)
Like there's wow.

Anne (25:43.874)
Stick with this guy and you get free ice cream. Yeah.

Christina (25:46.018)
Yeah. That's pretty cool.

James (25:48.78)
And I will say I've never played that game since.

Christina (25:51.192)
Maybe you should take Aldero back. Do you think it's still there?

James (25:54.786)
They

Anne (25:55.37)
No no, and she the restaurant is not there anymore either.

Christina (26:00.31)
Sounds like a sketchy c yeah, yeah.

Anne (26:02.962)
Getting us back on track. Okay. So that was how we met. Okay. And then I was very classically oriented at the time. So I one of my early musical dreams was to be a cellist in an orchestra. So that's what I had in my sights. And speaking of that like snow globe world, yeah, that was that was what I had thought that I would be doing with my life. And

So even when I found out that James played the ukulele, like there was no way that we would ever play music together. Like that was just not at all an option.

James (26:42.634)
I might as well have been in a different industry, you know.

Anne (26:45.342)
Well, and it was just like my lack of imagination, but and probably a bunch of conditioning too, of just like this is music, this is serious music, this is w what you're doing. Yeah. And so it was several years of after we started dating that there was this opportunity that came up to this recording, right, for that Japanese compilation record.

Christina (26:55.486)
Yeah.

Christina (27:12.045)
So

James (27:12.406)
compilation where we had to arrange a piece of classical music because they were doing a compilation of classical pieces played on the ukulele. And that's a very sort of Japanese style of project where you get really into one thing and you just want to go all in on this one thing. So they had this whole classical compilation and they asked me to do an arrangement. And I think then I th well why why don't we try this? Because this is your lane.

Anne (27:37.12)
Yeah, so it was classical music. So I was like, okay, I I understand that language. And then we arranged something. It was like pre arranged. We probably even like wrote it out on sheet music and and then we just found that two instruments worked so well together. So we're like, what? Yeah. Musically. well

Christina (28:00.064)
Well how many years in were you?

Anne (28:04.039)
so that was when we were in Ottawa. So that was I mean, like maybe three. Three four.

James (28:09.771)
But in those ti in that time we had never even considered

Christina (28:12.878)
'Cause we're just too busy eating banana splits. And

James (28:15.022)
That's right, yeah. And that and that Ave Maria was just like another, you know, free banana split.

Anne (28:21.708)
yeah, that's true. I haven't thought about it as our first musical date, but that's exactly what it was. And then you start to like see it working. So then we started to perform together. And at that time James was principally an instrumentalist. So we performed as an instrumental ukulele cello duo. And then this is a very long answer.

Christina (28:47.187)
Great.

Anne (28:49.3)
It's a tough How did we get to Champagne Weather? Yeah. So then we

Christina (28:55.278)
Wait, can I interject with the question? Yes. At this point, 'cause I know improvisation is is an element is is very much a part of the live experience. I don't know about the studio, but I wanna I do wanna hone in on this because it's something that I don't consider like something that I'm good at, improvisation, even though there must be some improvisation to what I do because I make am making something from nothing and following up

James (29:24.438)
Composing, which is slow improvisation.

Christina (29:26.956)
That's what I do. Very slow improvising.

Anne (29:29.567)
She everything starts there.

Christina (29:32.35)
live, like it would definitely take I should probably attend, you said that you're teaching improvisation classes for young for youth. Yeah. Right?

Anne (29:41.528)
I should probably attend this because you should.

Christina (29:43.899)
I mean no not I'm I'm not even joking because I don't it scares me.

James (29:48.152)
Well, you're clearly a good improviser 'cause you're doing it right now.

Christina (29:51.106)
That's you're right.

James (29:53.122)
I mean d you didn't write that down.

Christina (29:55.17)
Mind blowing. I didn't I haven't even did you see me ask any questions from my paper yet? I want I'm hiding the questions from you.

James (30:00.886)
Any questions in the paper?

Anne (30:02.51)
You've left over to the right side.

Okay, I don't yes, we don't know. We're gonna be completely spontaneous about our answers. Okay, perfect. Okay.

Christina (30:14.008)
There was so classically trained, did you grow up doing any improvisation or like 'cause I've met classical musicians who were like, I can only read. Like, so was that something you had to learn? Like tell me about both your experiences. If you can remember what you were talking about before and bring us back to it eventually. Yeah. I've already forgotten.

Anne (30:34.464)
I can multitask, yeah. I I do I can't That's there. Okay. Well, to answer your question about improvisation, no, that was not at all part of my training in classical music. I think it's changing now. And even even in so called classical circles, I think there's more of embracing improvisation. We would always talk about like play it as if it's improvised. So there's a sentiment of that and

an acknowledgement that there's an immediacy about improvisation that's really desirable. but I yeah it was absolutely terrifying to go off page. Once you are once you learn to read music and that becomes your way with music, it

is very hard to deviate from that because it's so clear. There's so much clarity. And now I'm coming to a place where with our Champagne Weather music, I don't we don't write anything down. It's none of it is scored until we go to share it with somebody else. And then we realize how limited music notation is. How much you can't put on that sheet of paper. And and so w before I thought the

The sheet was the Bible, you know, it was everything. It was just like so specific and so clear and knowable. And now I'm like, wait, it's just a suggestion. It's just this whiff of an idea that a composer tried to scroll down as quickly as possible and then is just doing it so that he can or she can share it with somebody else. So so the role of

Reading music is mostly, I think, for efficiency and that ability to communicate with other people. but improvisation is is it's a unique thing. So in classical music, the I would say sometimes now, so there's a form that is called concerto, and it's usually like a big show-offy piece. So a an instrumentalist will learn this concerto.

Anne (32:42.966)
And then the big like flourish right before the end is called a cadenza. Now, in years, generations past, there've been cadenzas written by particularly prominent players. but I think what's tending to happen now is that teachers are encouraging students to write their own cadenza. So it's not an improvisation because it's still composed in the end, but it starts off as an improvisation.

And so what that does and what what songwriting d has done for me in improvisation is it's helped me to really get some skin in the game. When you're always playing somebody else's music, you there's this distance about it. And like secretly you're like, Well, if you don't really like it, I didn't actually write this. But when it's your song and I remember you were talking before about like what are some watershed moments,

And one of my watershed moments and what brought me to songwriting was actually a cello masterclass. There's this woman named Shauna Rolston. Her her parents are very involved with the Banff Center, if you've heard of that. This incredible center in in Alberta. but she's this like like amazing, fiery, free-spirited.

Christina (33:55.962)
Anne (34:06.06)
cellist and cello teacher and she came to give this guest masterclass at at the Vancouver Academy of Music where I was studying and was basically like, What are you saying? Like, what are you doing with your music? What are you wanting to say? And whatever that is, like you've got to do it now. And I was like, wait, I I like I need lyrics. I need to speak to people in a very direct way. And I can't do that.

just through the cello. I d I was feeling for the first time ever the limitations of the instrument. And so that, yeah, so the in this like, you know, fury of insight, I was like, wow, okay, this is what I need to do. And so I wrote my first song. Like yeah, and and then you know, as often happens, you put it on the shelf for years and years. And then I did my masters in cello

And then we started playing together more and more. And then you became interested in songwriting.

James (35:11.34)
Yeah. It's i you know, I I I think of that time that I was in Hawaii 'cause I used to travel there quite a bit 'cause of the Ukulele. And and I there was a there was a little stand that was selling hats and I always liked those Kangol hats that were like little caps and like tweed caps. And I bought this cap, this tweed cap, knowing that I wouldn't wear it. But that I wanted to one day be the person who would wear that hat.

Christina (35:40.118)
Interesting.

James (35:40.33)
And I literally had it in the closet for like yeah.

Christina (35:42.894)
I have done the same thing with lingerie.

James (35:45.678)
I knew we would connect on that stuff. Exactly. You know, and I think songs are a bit like that, where it's like I wrote this thing, I want to grow into this. I'm not ready to be this person yet, but I would like to one day be this person. And, you know, I've had that experience too, not just with hats, but you know, with music. And for for me, all I ever wanted to do was improvise.

Anne (35:49.271)
Mm-hmm.

Christina (36:08.278)
Interesting.

James (36:11.976)
like I come from a completely different s vector, you know. Like all I wanted to do was improvise and write my own stuff. I didn't come alive with music until I could or was allowed to or was encouraged to improvise and compose. That's all I wanted to do. Even when my teachers at at a younger age would try to teach me a piece that was on the paper, I would go off the paper. It was it was just it must have been hell.

for the accompanyist. 'Cause I mean, they would try to follow where I was going, but I mean they ended up just improvising along too. It's like I remember the Ravel this pro public performance of this Ravel piece that I did one time and I went completely off the rails and

Anne (36:50.158)
Yeah.

James (36:58.446)
And the accompanied us kind of just made something up in behind and everybody was watching. There must have been 200 people in this church, and I was performing because I had won an award for being such a good violin player. And here I was, completely not even playing the piece. And I thought it was great.

Christina (37:12.588)
Was it good? Did they What was the response? Were they like

James (37:17.794)
I don't remember. Okay. I don't it wasn't I knew that it wasn't what my teacher was hoping for. And yet I just sort of reveled in it.

Christina (37:28.386)
Was there a little opposal oppositional defiance in there or or was

James (37:32.162)
there was a little bit of oops, I should have practiced that harder if I wanted to play it the way it is on the page. Gotcha. but in the meantime I'm perfectly happy to make something up.

Christina (37:40.588)
That's talent. For sure.

James (37:43.692)
And that's like the story of my life. So there there we are.

Christina (37:45.418)
Yeah. Mm. That's the well, you are known in the industry as unprepared James. I don't know. Overprepared Anne. Nobody is ever this this sounds horrible too. No one's ever mentioned you. That's not true. That's not true. I mean in gossip circles. No one's gossiping about you guys, and I'm sorry I I

Anne (38:10.27)
That's really too bad. I know. Maybe you can start some juicy

Christina (38:15.03)
Is it time for my first question?

James (38:16.558)
Time for the first.

Anne (38:17.807)
But we haven't answered. We have not answered how we got to show and what we did.

James (38:21.486)
I don't want to rush into anything.

Christina (38:23.512)
We have to create a little bit of like, hang on, listeners. Okay.

Anne (38:26.678)
Okay. So but we need to make sure that we get back to the rest of the

Christina (38:30.018)
The story. Here's the plan. Okay. We're gonna just this well, I don't have a strict plan. This is improvised. But good at it. my plan is that we're gonna come back because we do before we leave this episode, people are gonna be like, Well, how can I listen to their stuff? What's coming up? What are they working on? So we'll we'll get back to champagne weather. Okay. And how that what that is and how that came to be.

James (38:57.282)
Promise.

Christina (38:57.856)
And then we'll be like plugging all the places, okay? Beauty. Good point. but I wanna know, have either of you ever been bullied or bullied somebody else? And do we wanna name names? James is ready. He's got no

Anne (39:15.988)
Yeah, I need to th I need to think about that.

James (39:19.91)
no. well yes. Okay. But that's not what stands out in my memory. I can I I d I didn't love being bullied. I I my parents sent me to a sailing camp several summers in a row because some friends of ours who were very you know, well to do and my parents wanted to sort of keep up with them a little bit. and and sending your kids to sailing apparently was like a thing. and

So I went to this sailing camp and I knew nobody, I had no friends, I wasn't very good at sailing, so I didn't have anything going for me socially. And also not probably particularly available socially either. it was in my one of my So I I don't have very good memories of of that of those times but and there was some bullying and there's the other kind of stuff.

Christina (40:04.366)
'Cause you were in your hole.

Anne (40:06.934)
He was already there.

James (40:15.778)
That's not what stays with me. What stays with me was when I did it to other people. That that that's much heavier to carry, I find. and so there was this one kid, Martin Robinson, if you're out there.

Christina (40:20.526)
Mm.

Christina (40:30.35)
We'll find him. Yeah. Share the this episode with him for sure.

James (40:34.764)
It's one of those things where, you know, like you're you're in elementary school and they say the and the teacher comes in one day and says, Hello boys and girls. have you ever heard of a counselor? And here's Judy, our counselor, and she's gonna be working with some of the kids in this class in a special group. And I was like, that's that's weird. Why why do we have to go off to like a special room?

And yeah, sure enough, like a group of like six boys had to go off with Judy and talk about their feelings and I was in that group. Okay. I didn't know. I I thought we were just playing like catch Martin.

Christina (41:07.681)
And were you in that group?

Christina (41:15.349)
What is that?

James (41:16.45)
You know, like a game. You would go off at at lunchtime and one kid would just run and all the other kids would run after him. Okay. It was kind of a version of tag, but you know, not. Yeah, like cat and mouse. I can see how that was not fun for Martin. Although, you know, you get into these roles and then he would like his role was to be the mouse. So he kinda got into it. But also, that just was not a healthy thing.

Anne (41:27.95)
Yeah.

James (41:44.584)
And I I still like you carry that. You carry those things. We're like, I shouldn't have done that.

Christina (41:49.374)
You really shouldn't have. But I also know it didn't sound anything like that. I it's not I know that it's bad to you. I but like it doesn't sound too horrible. Yeah, I just want you to know that I

James (42:05.24)
Thanks. There was that one time we sort of jumped him in the bathroom and he didn't know we were.

Anne (42:05.88)
Yeah.

Christina (42:10.754)
Did you actually do that? 'Cause that is bad. That too that's bad.

James (42:15.756)
I think that was the worst it got. Yeah. We didn't know we were in there. We were all hid in the urinals and we jumped out when it came That's right. I wasn't I wasn't finished. Yeah.

Christina (42:20.606)
Okay, you were easing into it.

I'm sorry, I interrupted your horror story. Well that's but yeah, but then you that's how you learn how how that feels. That's right. And then did you stop? Absolutely.

James (42:36.318)
Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. And the and that stay that stayed with me. Poor Martin was a you know, he was a great teacher. he maybe didn't set out to be a great teacher, but I learned so much from that experience. And when there was some there was some hazing, for example, in some groups that I've been part of. like you know, new kids would be no no I thought when I was a teenager.

Christina (42:54.744)
Please or okay.

Christina (42:59.202)
What is that, Dale? Dale's doing Dale's doing this. I'm like Dude, not now. Not that No, he's doing this motion with his hands. Put the mic close to my mouth. Thank you. I apologize. That's okay. But that was I'm like This isn't your time, Dale. You can put your feet up if you want. Mine are falling asleep. Okay, there you go.

James (43:06.284)
Be further away?

James (43:18.549)
Yeah.

James (43:26.75)
Put your feet up if you want. It's almost as good. So yeah, Martin was a great teacher. I learned a lot from that experience. And then when I was involved in in groups that did have sort of hazing rituals, I did you know, like I said to myself, as soon as I'm the oldest kid here, that stops, you know. And and I the i absolutely did that, you know. Once once I got to be in a position where I had any leverage

Christina (43:28.599)
Yeah, okay.

Christina (43:53.186)
Yeah.

James (43:53.792)
All that stuff stopped. And kids weren't getting thrown in the bathtub in the middle of the night and like having their underwear frozen and you know, getting you know shoved around and stuff. So I would like to think in a very small way, but it was because I I'd already had that kind of that embarrassment and the shame and the th in on a very small like elementary school level of having been of of having bullied somebody else.

Christina (44:02.636)
Yeah. You broke the cycle.

Christina (44:20.106)
Yeah. Anne. What about you? Are you a bully?

Anne (44:25.758)
I'm I'm trying to I'm trying. I I was thinking about

Christina (44:30.967)
It's okay if you have absolutely no experience with bullying. That's probably nice.

Anne (44:36.216)
Probably it is probably good. I have led a very charmed life, I must admit. But it the the chasing on the playground did remind me of there there was a kid in our class in elementary school, who w we nicknamed Kevin the Kisser because he would chase all the girls around and try and kiss us at lunch. Is that bullying? I I don't I don't think it's bullying. I I don't know. That's

James (44:57.154)
That must have been very true.

James (45:03.032)
Bullying adjacent

Christina (45:03.992)
Kind of like early would that be like sexual assault in a in a junior kind of way?

James (45:12.995)
Junior.

Anne (45:15.582)
Yeah. I mean I think it was very innocent. I I don't think it was meant to be

Christina (45:20.63)
Yeah, no, people. I shouldn't have said came out with sexual assault. But it's like a natural thing to want to do, kiss kiss people. But then he that person hadn't learned the boundaries yet, or that it you know, or didn't think it could harm anyone and it it's all done and just so I

Anne (45:40.936)
I w I like it from

James (45:42.174)
How confusing the playground is. Like I I don't remember it, but wow, what a place. I mean, isn't it it's a lot like the music business.

Christina (45:49.44)
Yeah. I well I had there was a a boy like that in our on our playground that would just torment the girls and and then one day I had two girls hold him down and I I gas is it gas pedaling, is that what it's called? I kicked him in the nuts. And I I know it probably hurt him. Probably. I had a good talking too. Like the teacher was like, you know, he could have trouble having ch children.

Anne (45:50.84)
Yeah.

Christina (46:18.21)
This is in grade six. And I was like, Yeah, I guess I should apologize, but he never bothered us again.

James (46:19.278)
So you've carried that.

Anne (46:24.878)
There you go.

James (46:25.742)
And the moral of the story, kids, is I'm actually not quite sure.

Christina (46:30.37)
I'm not sure if I learned my lesson. Yeah, what lesson was it?

Anne (46:34.296)
Who learned what lesson? That was

James (46:40.76)
There there's so many mixed messages, especially on the playground. I remember w one other time with Martin, going back to Martin, another friend of mine who was part of the group of six, he ran after Martin and got him on the ground somehow, and then he had a pickle in a plastic bag and he started whipping Martin with the pickle in the bag, sort of like

And and he kept s this is during the age of like Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles.

Anne (47:13.847)
Yeah.

Christina (47:14.018)
Yes.

Anne (47:16.43)
Like a piccolo.

Christina (47:18.514)
Muggle pickle phone. He called himself.

James (47:19.95)
Michael Pickle Yes, yes, yes. And he was whipping Martin with this pickle in a bag and you know, what am I supposed to think? This is funny. It's terrible. And I'm and I'm and I'm nine years old. How do you deal with those mixed messages? I'm

Christina (47:28.756)
It's hilarious.

Christina (47:38.634)
I know whose parents were laughing when they they got the call. Right. It's just it's hard to work out.

Anne (47:46.188)
That's a new story. I have not heard that story.

Christina (47:49.282)
Wow. See this is the magic that happens on a chat with her podcast. You like I really want to find this guy.

Anne (47:53.55)
Like it.

I mean I don't approve of the story, but I like the new

James (47:58.956)
And then there were carrots. Carrots were involved too and he was carrots. And like it was

Christina (48:04.874)
Michael Piccolo was being jabbed with carrots. Or he was jabbing with

James (48:09.27)
So it was this incredible surrealist

Anne (48:12.32)
Sounds like a smorgasbord.

Christina (48:13.782)
What do you do? Yeah. What are you supposed to do with it? I don't know. Anyway, we're all grown up now and we don't have We are n we do not have to talk about it. We can repress the

Christina (48:27.842)
Guys, I want to talk about behind the mic stuff. Okay. Behind the scenes. We're jumping around because that's what we do in conversations. Yeah. That's what real life is. It's a bunch of jumping around. Favorite scenario when you play live, like, do you do you like things set up a certain way? What's your dream? Like, my God, when this is the setting, anything could happen still, but like

This is where I'm most at home. Like is what are you what are the little details that you go into a venue, you get you get to take it over. What's how do you want it to be so that you can be yourselves on stage? Mm-hmm. I'm curious about that. Cause I I that's Dark. Dark? Mm-hmm. low lighting, right? Low lighting.

James (49:15.8)
Lighting is so important.

Christina (49:18.174)
it's not fun when the brightest lights are blaring at you.

James (49:21.96)
Only the good acts get to play after sundown at the festival. Like that's there's a hierarchy at a festival, which is are you playing before the sun goes down or are you playing after the sun goes down? There's only two types of gigs here, the bright ones and the dark ones, and all the expensive bands go on after the sun goes down. There's a reason for that. It feels magical. Yeah. Right. So i if a venue is cool and dark, but like n interesting, glowing, you know, ambient lighting.

I I'm all in. I I think you need that to get in the zone. Nothing to do with the sound, but for me it's important. It would be like this room right here. Yeah. After dark or at sunset with like a bunch of

Christina (49:58.304)
It it helps.

Christina (50:04.621)
yeah, we could do we do that too sometimes.

James (50:06.09)
Yeah, yeah. This that would be good for me.

Christina (50:08.846)
What about you, Ann?

Anne (50:10.008)
We've started playing in like with the audience around us lately. Yeah. Where we're in the center and facing each other. And that has felt really lovely. It's kind of a new ish discovery and it's not always possible depending on what venue we're in, but that's really fun. I enjoy that.

James (50:33.792)
Yeah, yeah. And to pick up on that, the reason we started doing that was because we started giving these afternoon workshops where you know, the idea is people come into the venue before the show, maybe before dinner, and it's a workshop, it's an art making experience. So we play and improvise for about forty-five minutes straight. We don't talk, there's no applause, and people come in with some art making supplies, whether that's cross stitch or like

sketchpad or paints or whatever and they sit around us in the round and as we play and improvise and wander around musically, they just make art. And at the end of the 45 minutes or f whatever it is, you you always lose track of time. they can share if they want, you know, what they did or they don't have to. Some some people write poetry or prose. And it what's so magical about that and has nothing to do with the lighting, is for me, the

Christina (51:13.646)
That's so cool.

James (51:33.194)
Unexpected joy of playing for an audience who is only half listening to you. it's just bliss. Uh-huh. Because they're not looking to you to entertain them at every moment of every song. It's you don't get the sort of like here we are now entertain us kind of problem. It's they are you are part of their world and they are part of your world and

Christina (51:41.974)
You like that? To me huh.

James (52:01.718)
you're kind of overlapping but not fully. And you're just kind of helping each other along by being present in the same space. We we are able to go off into musical areas in those situations that we would never do in a concert. We were able to take risks that we would never take in a concert when everybody's eyeballs are right on this this half listening is for me a a

Christina (52:25.614)
Staring at you. It's a little unnerving too.

James (52:31.488)
A revelation and it's something that we're gonna do more of

Anne (52:34.784)
I I would like to qualify that actually. I know you just feel so But I don't think they're half listening. I think they're listening more deeply. And I think there's like an an action and when it's in the body, there's a way of listening that is deeper than when somebody's sitting at a chair and engaging just through intellect or emotion.

James (52:37.292)
You would think it wouldn't work, right?

James (53:00.758)
That's true. I I I I'm sorry, but I'm gonna have to agree with that.

Christina (53:04.8)
Yes. You don't have to apologize. That was she wins. Yeah. She it's not a competition, you guys. But if Anne wins. Yeah.

Anne (53:11.534)
But if it were yeah, I and I think the this this like us playing in the in the round was a an outgrowth of that because it's so cool for artists to be anywhere around you. And so yeah, it just I think also that orientation just helps us to like be in our own world. And then it's more just about we're creating something.

And then everybody else is witnessing but also contributing, you know. In in that sort of exchange kind of a way that happens live.

James (53:41.921)
And they're witness

James (53:51.168)
I I first saw I think it was Gillian Welch and David Rawlings doing this facing each other on stage. I know lots of people do it, but they were the first ones that I saw doing it. And it is really it's noticeable. You you as an audience member you go, what do I do with this? Where am I in this equation? They're not looking at me. I'm not the center of attention as an audience member. as an audience member, I actually like that because I don't like to be the center of attention.

Christina (54:11.777)
Looking at

James (54:20.778)
as the audience member. You know when you go to a rock show and then the lights flare out onto the audience and you suddenly feel that you're in the spotlight? I hate that moment.

Christina (54:29.602)
Well I've noticed some people when I make eye contact with them if the lighting is not dark. Yeah. I've noticed it makes some people uncomfortable. So I make note of that and like don't stare and deeply deliver this line to that man. Yeah. Hold on a second. Are you guys being distracted by Olivia? she's trying to get out the winter mittens and and hats 'cause it's cold. Olivia, you I love you, but come down. Come on. Come on.

Anne (54:39.842)
Don't look at

Anne (54:44.622)
Yes.

James (54:52.417)
She's ahead of her time.

Christina (54:58.956)
Good girl. Who legitimate question, who's your favorite of our two cats? Maybe is don't make me choose. And they don't like this. They don't care. They just they just like honest.

Anne (55:09.548)
I can't choose. I love them both.

Christina (55:12.236)
Maybe he's just totally chillin' late.

James (55:14.51)
She has really got quite a aura about her this little maybe cat

Christina (55:19.168)
She's amazing, you guys. She's like litter trained. we were concerned we would, you know, with the litter and the feeding, like would she be able to eat on her own? For those of you who don't know, maybe is our new kitten, two months old, who has cerebellar hypoplasia, which is w known as wobbly cat syndrome. And we weren't sure how much like time attention it would take, but we were just I was just willing to give it.

And now Dale is. Dale wasn't initially, but now he is a hundred percent in. but she's turned out to be incredible. Like really easy, lovely, fun. right now she's fast asleep and just adorable, bringing so much joy just by sleeping. Just by

Christina (56:09.812)
Exactly. Half issue. Half listening. I love it.

James (56:13.334)
Maybe she is. Maybe she's maybe she's embodying the message and that's why she's getting so much out of it. I don't know.

Christina (56:19.074)
Back to the some people are creating art while you're performing. Mm-hmm. And you think they're half listening, but you think maybe they're listening even more. And then it's coming. I love that it when you were talking about that, it kind of made me think of like 'cause oftentimes w in the past when I would be doing my like r morning writings or journaling or whatever, I'd be listening to my favorite music. But you never see a piece of art

James (56:28.258)
Where it is, it works.

Christina (56:46.402)
Like oftentimes artists will listen to not always, but oftentimes you listen to music while you make art. But you never see like in an art gallery, like here's the painting and created while listening to, you know, Starman d Bowie or something. Like credit. We never give credit really to the but all the people in the room with you, you've influenced what they're making.

Also, you've brought them to that space to to make space for and time for people to be creative. And then the art they're making is totally influenced. And the music you're making is is probably is influenced by the people in the room and the energy. So there's that whole but you never see that presented as a here's well here's a whole exhibit.

James (57:18.04)
That's right, yeah.

James (57:36.43)
Unless you go to see the Champagne Weather art exhibit which just ran for three weeks at the Aurora Cul Cultural Center in Aurora, Ontario. And it was a collection of artworks by artists who we'd invited to pr perform, create their pieces on stage with us during concerts over the

Christina (57:58.318)
Are you saying that that that I just had the best segue ever into promoting

I had no idea. Distracted by Olivia. No, I I didn't know this existed. I didn't do my research.

James (58:14.808)
I kind of thought that you were setting it up 'cause it was like so exactly perfect. No. 'Cause we so we called it Portraits of Song. Okay. And it had how many works were there? E eleven pieces and they all hung in the gallery for three weeks.

Anne (58:24.267)
Eleven.

Anne (58:28.664)
Seven artists like across Canada?

James (58:31.134)
And and you could scan a QR code beside the beside the the the work that they had done and you would hear an interview with them talking about what it was like and you would hear the music that they were listening to while they were creating the piece live on stage as we were performing. So we we kinda did what you said. You

Christina (58:49.614)
Okay, you did it. That you did what you said you would do. And then this is this you know, how there's that I theory that like ideas are kind of just floating around and if you don't grab it someone else will kind of thing. Well I was late to the to pay attention to the

Anne (59:09.356)
You just had the same.

James (59:11.67)
You wake up one day and you're having a shower and you're like, E equals C squared

Anne (59:14.626)
Yeah.

Christina (59:15.42)
Yeah.

James (59:18.008)
Yeah.

Anne (59:19.392)
But the the workshop was an outgrowth of the live performances because we were starting to notice that some of the principles that we were using in our composition, in our improvisation, in our aesthetic w corresponded or correlated to principles in visual art. Line, form, color.

Christina (59:21.507)
Yeah.

Anne (59:45.102)
Color, texture, foreground, background, like these things that

James (59:50.584)
Portrait landscape, that kind of decoration.

Anne (59:52.852)
Yeah, that we were starting to notice that that connection. So then yeah, we started inviting visual artists to create during our live performances and then yeah, now we have this beautiful art show and then we realized, well, it's not just professional artists, it's everybody who can benefit from this experience. And so yeah, so we do actually have two of those workshops coming up. That's what's happening in

Christina (01:00:21.642)
I wanna go. Yeah.

Anne (01:00:21.838)
No. Please come. Yeah. So October third is at the Take Art Gallery, two PM.

Christina (01:00:29.41)
I don't need to write this down 'cause it's in the podcast, but I I'm gonna put it

Anne (01:00:32.6)
Yeah. Okay. that's in Halifax. And then November seventh is seven PM at the commune in Truro. So both of those will be just art art making experiences. And the other thing that's fun is it's for creatives. Like it's not it's not necessarily even for visual artists. It's just for people who are wanting to

Christina (01:00:43.598)
Okay.

Anne (01:00:57.9)
To color we've had coloring sheets at our shows before, like people doodling or you know, it's a way to like be in your body while you're listening. So you don't have to be an artist. You don't you don't have to work. It's just it's just you're engaging with the music, that's all.

James (01:01:10.07)
Yeah.

James (01:01:16.167)
And when you say it's for creatives, what you're saying is it's for everyone.

Anne (01:01:20.734)
Yeah. And anybody who's like wanting to make something. Whatever. People show up and they just watch sometimes too and that's fine. Yeah. Watching other people really interesting. Yeah.

James (01:01:24.354)
Yeah, and who doesn't want to

James (01:01:29.036)
And sometimes they want while they're listening to

Christina (01:01:33.454)
Relaxing, all right.

James (01:01:36.43)
It's very ASMR. I used to go and sit on the toilet, the the closed toilet. I would just sit there while somebody was having a shower. I just loved the sound of the water and the the warmth of the you it's like very sonically oriented toward, yeah, those sort of waterfall y kind of continuous but always changing, bubbling sounds. And I mean if that's not a segue, I mean this is basically what champagne weather sounds like.

Christina (01:02:04.878)
yeah.

James (01:02:06.902)
So like the the act of typing, if you think of typing, it's it's always the same. It's always going clickety, clickety, clickety. But if you're actually listening, it's not always the same. It's always a little bit different, modulating and the these very unpredictable overlapping rhythms that don't really follow a pattern, but they kinda do. you can't quite hold it, you know, and yet you try to sort of you sort of try to embrace it, but you can't fully

You can't fully apprehend it. I think that's part of the the fun. It's it's it's kind of slipping away from you all the time. It's like trying to hold sand in in in in the palm of your hand, you know. It's always slipping through and yet it's it feels so nice. There's kind of a sensual quality to just the the sound itself. And I think that is a big part of what is eventually after much unlearning has come out in the music we're doing with Champagne Mother.

Christina (01:03:06.606)
Brilliant. Kate, wait, is this the segue too to going back to real seamless, but how yeah. Like you if we were talking about, you know, it was a couple years before you guys had played together, but the Champagne weather sound, and like was there like an my god moment? And then did the name come soon after? And what

Anne (01:03:10.702)
I don't know.

James (01:03:14.23)
Like snakes and ladders though. Here we go, right back to the beginning.

Christina (01:03:35.458)
Go ahead, Ann. I know you're ready. You've been like God, when are we gonna get to the point where I can How what with the backgrounds, the musical backgrounds and like I mean what Anne, what happened? What happened?

James (01:03:39.95)
Stop talking.

James (01:03:51.715)
I was just gonna say the same thing. What?

Anne (01:03:54.616)
Just the question is like what kept happening. And the interesting thing about when you bring two lives together, as you well know, is things need to keep happening in order for it to keep working. And so just from pure luck, or I I don't know how we got to be so lucky, but we seem to be able to

Christina (01:03:58.84)
Yeah, what kept happening

Anne (01:04:24.578)
continue to evolve and yet still be in collaboration with one another. So yeah, so we were instrumentalists first in different worlds. Then we were an instrumental duo. Then we became singer songwriters. Then we toured as two singer-songwriters. Then we started writing songs together.

And also simultaneously had this desire to reach beyond the song form that we had come to know. And so what kept happening is we kept on having these same moments which alone might have seemed like crises, but together was like

This is amazing. Okay. We're we're in this together. We're still in this together. We're we're still exploring. We still haven't said what we want to say yet. just this continued growth and evolution, like together, but in our own ways. And so I think to answer the question about what happened, what keeps happening.

Is our collaboration just keeps getting deeper, it keeps getting more meaningful, it keeps evolving as we evolve as humans, as artists. And now it's to the point where we go out on stage and we don't even necessarily know how the songs are gonna go. And so we have to trust each other to such a degree.

that it has also deepened our just our relationship, let alone the musical relationship.

James (01:06:18.99)
Yeah, peop the audience is like watching a game of trust when they're watching Shappy Weather.

Christina (01:06:24.694)
I could see that. Yeah.

James (01:06:26.39)
And and I will say w when I listen to you go through that sort of time lapse of our lives, it's yeah, it that's a lot to take in. But the the part that I wanted to jump in on was when we finally, after all those stages and all those happy accidents and everything sort of wobbling forward in time, we got to a place where we started writing songs together. But we r started writing

intentionally unfinished songs together. Because Champagne Weather songs are not finished songs. They they cannot be finished. They're i it's like paint that never dries. It's continuously reforming itself. And so there is no definitive version of any of these songs that we have s quote unquote written together. It just seems interesting to me. I've never really said it aloud, but it seems interesting that

the the thing we ended up being able to really collaborate on was a thing that neither of us owns in a sense, artistically. It has a kind of a elbow room in it that that doesn't belong to either of us. It we made a third thing and it just kind of has slightly a life of its own and we kind of we kind of help it along whenever we perform this thing, but it doesn't belong to either of us. And I

I'm not sure that if we wrote in a much more conventional style, if that would feel quite as good as it does.

Anne (01:07:57.822)
Yeah. And I mean maybe just to I don't wanna talk about the music too too much, but kind of it's kind of like granular. But

James (01:08:03.426)
No, it's it's too boring.

Christina (01:08:05.102)
Tudo bom.

James (01:08:08.702)
But if but if you're still listening out there.

Christina (01:08:10.456)
You're still listening, my little heartbeat listeners.

Anne (01:08:14.184)
And it's it's it's an like basically we we create these it's like we create the conditions of the song. So we create little Lego pieces that can fit together in any kind of configuration. Little little motif. So

James (01:08:34.132)
Fragments. I like to think of them as fragments. I know you don't like that description so much, but I like the idea of little fragments that kind of don't really belong anywhere until they're all together and then they Yeah, then they sort of make sense together. And yeah.

Anne (01:08:44.877)
And then they make something.

Anne (01:08:49.44)
So we don't like we don't know how they're gonna recombine and the the feeling of a this like serendipity and improvisational element and surprise, delight, all of that stuff happens because of how we have created the songs to be unfinished. Like and then it it

every iteration just becomes this collaboration with the artist finally that's or sorry, with the audience finally that's this okay, well this is how it went tonight. And I think

James (01:09:28.694)
It's it's not finished until the audience is there.

Anne (01:09:31.425)
Interesting.

James (01:09:34.251)
Which is probably true of all music, but especially with style.

Christina (01:09:36.365)
Maybe.

Anne (01:09:37.708)
Yeah, for sure. Yeah.

James (01:09:39.927)
So you hear that audience? Yeah. Come out and buy tickets 'cause we need you. Otherwise we are unfinished.

Christina (01:09:44.094)
I'm I've I've experienced it and I wanna keep in experiencing it. It's it is remarkable. I mean it's also as a you know, as as a musician, like as a performer, I guess it's joy from watching your express y just you and how you are you feel you look appear to be very grounded on stage in your elements

And the smile on your face. Like, I never, I just like you, it just looks like you're just I am in bliss. And you're real like that ultimate, like, you know, we talk a lot about being present and being whatever. Like to me, watching you guys, I'm like, I may not be present, but like I'm enjoying watching you be present. And that is a lesson to me to like keep looking for those things in my life that make me feel.

feel that way, that I can be that way. one example would be getting ice cream down at the corner store here. that's really when I'm in my element. This my heavenly hash ice cream

James (01:10:55.736)
A little different though, because you don't like watching other people eat ice cream. You wanna

Christina (01:11:00.374)
Normally, you know what? And that's a good thing you s normally I don't always get enjoyment from watching performers. I'm too caught up in, you know, the production or like the things I don't maybe enjoy about it or, you know, my personal taste or whatever. But when I watch you, I can I can actually I'm not I am noticing things like how awesome you've you're

your wardrobe selection is it is incredible. It's you know, and I know it's definitely talking about yeah, only your t shirts. Yeah no, I noticed that stuff because I am a very visual person and I but obviously the decisions that go not that you need that, but to me it is this extra level of expression, individual expression for both of you and

I'm assuming you're picking your outfits yourselves individually. Maybe, James, maybe not so much, but definitely Anne. Definitely Anne. so I'm enjoying the whole thing, is what I'm saying. I'm I thoroughly enjoy and can say everybody, go get your tickets. and I'm extra curious because the new album is in the works, is coming out. There's some shows coming up. If we get this out soon, let's let's talk about that before I

Before we get back to eating more snacks.

James (01:12:24.438)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. The cheese.

Anne (01:12:27.864)
Flatter.

Christina (01:12:28.174)
So there's an album coming out.

James (01:12:30.984)
you know, Christina, if there was only one album coming out, it would be out by now. Yeah. we decided to really go big. I think we both have a sense that like well, i th that there was something we we both wanted to like make a comment, I guess, on like the album as a form. So I shouldn't be saying this 'cause I'm gonna jinx us, but you know, ca this is this is the kind of thing you say after you've

Christina (01:12:39.864)
Good?

Christina (01:12:44.559)
James (01:12:59.35)
release something and it's wonderful and tremendous and you've made a r a statement. Yeah. You don't want to say these things before you try to make a maybe like a special bonus episode. Very short bonus episode. Okay. But y you know, like I loved Joel Plaskett's album three, you know, I think I loved what he did when he did his album forty four. You know, like I I I love that Pharrell Williams did a twenty four hour long music video. You know, it's like

Christina (01:13:06.604)
Do you want me to edit this and save it?

Fonus episode.

James (01:13:28.586)
I love these experiments with the forum itself. I love albums and I and I feel like we have the possibility now to r to create albums that are sort of epic and that are not confined to thirty-three and a third, you know, a platter. we can do that now. And yeah. And we both felt like, yeah, let's do that now. So so what did we end up deciding on?

Christina (01:13:51.372)
Yeah, what did you decide on for my

Anne (01:13:53.238)
It's gonna be a quadruple record.

Christina (01:13:57.526)
A quadruple, wait, what is that? Four?

James (01:14:02.36)
We stretch out in four movements in some ways it kinda go ba going back to the classical form of like a four movement work, that has multiple sections and we we've written all these songs and we've recorded them all and it's just a question of getting them all together. We started with this theme of A D S R. Now this is a very nerdy music term, A D S R, which you find on all synthesizers, and a lot of gear that, you know.

Dale has over there. It it means attack, decay, sustain, release. And it describes the shape of a sound. You know, it comes comes in, that's the attack. There's a short decay after that. And then there's a long sustain period. Well, not always long, but it can be sustained. If you think of a clarinet, that's a very long sustain. and then there's a release, the the when the note lets off. And that curve, that A D S R curve, describes the shape of any sound that you hear. It doesn't matter if it's your

Your cat meowing or, you know, somebody dropping a teacup or you know, these are the sounds that we hear got our attention. and we thought, wow, that sounds like life attack. You know, is it the birth, maybe adolescence, that sustained part of your adulthood, and then the r the eventual release. And like there the idea that there's a life in every sound and that every sound is like life.

Christina (01:15:08.718)
maybe.

James (01:15:29.614)
that was a very compelling idea. So we followed that and we wrote multiple tunes sort of in each of those phases. And then we thought, well, we'll just release them as a as a giant quadruple album. like for example, sustain is just one the sustain album, which is the third of the four, is just one piece that's like twenty four minutes long. You know. So they're kind of trying to embody the message of each one of those movements. How f I think it's fun.

Christina (01:15:55.448)
Fun.

Anne (01:15:57.772)
Yeah, and we wrote the songs and then we created alternate versions of the same song too. So if James was the creative lead on one song, then I would take it and sort of cover do like a cover version. so we have often multiple versions of the same song as well, which again is this interesting way of collaborating where you're

embodying somebody else's song.

Christina (01:16:28.78)
Yeah, I've seen you do this live too. Very cool. Yeah.

James (01:16:31.586)
Yeah. You sort of flip it around. We call it the shadow version. So, you know, and sometimes those shadow versions, the sort of negative image of the song, sometimes those end up being our favorites. So we actually, you know, those become the version that we do more often live. you never know what's sort of lying under a song when you flip it over. It's like, wow. The thing that I thought I was writing was just a way to get to the other side of the song. Right. We've had that experience many times.

Christina (01:16:59.01)
That's what I think about my crap journal entries. Right, right. It's just a way to get to good stuff. That's what I think about crap sh stuff in life. Uhhuh. It's just meant to get us through.

James (01:17:11.778)
That's right. So the the the best idea comes after the worst idea.

Christina (01:17:15.03)
Okay, so where are the upcoming shows? We're telling people to buy tickets. And we gotta tell them what are they what are they buying tickets for?

Anne (01:17:22.582)
Well, it's the the portraits of song workshops that we were talking about earlier.

Christina (01:17:27.936)
So let's repeat the dates and the locations.

Anne (01:17:31.234)
One coming up in Halifax on October 3rd at 2 p.m. And so the Take Art Gallery is right beside the Art Gallery of Nova Scotia. So it's on Hollis Street there, right downtown. And then we also have another Portress of Song workshop on November 7th at 7 p.m. And that one's gonna be at the commune in Truro.

Christina (01:17:54.412)
Nice and tickets it's not there these are there are tickets or are they free? Yeah.

Anne (01:17:59.118)
Yeah, so it's there it's like a pay what you can. So we're trying to make it as accessible as possible and and so yeah, there's like a you can buy tickets on our website, champagneweather.com slash tour. You can there's like a sliding scale that you can pay what you want there or of course at the door. Exactly. Yeah. To show up. And art art supplies will be provided or people can bring their own if they want to. So

Christina (01:18:20.718)
Show up.

Christina (01:18:28.78)
You could write a song while while hanging out.

James (01:18:32.478)
That's right.

Anne (01:18:32.974)
Totally. Probably you definitely should come and you should definitely do that. Yeah.

Christina (01:18:36.942)
Okay. I will. I'm doing it. Great. Now I just want to scan to see if there's any really important questions I can ask you. Nope. Check. Where are you at with dying? We don't need to go there. Yeah.

James (01:18:41.154)
We'll be there.

James (01:18:46.304)
Special sheet that you have there.

Anne (01:18:54.924)
And thank you so much for having us.

Christina (01:18:57.058)
Well, it is my privilege and pleasure to have you both and you're two people who I wish live next door. That would be pretty awesome. Yeah. We have more land than you, it's not a competition, but I think you could come here. You should

Anne (01:19:05.006)
We start a commune.

James (01:19:12.285)
yeah.

Christina (01:19:16.684)
Actually we know a guy we know a guy who does this and we actually sent us will wake up and there'll be a house literally going by our house.

James (01:19:26.638)
Like, is our house moving? no, it's that guy.

Christina (01:19:29.731)
Yes.

Anne (01:19:32.461)
Right.

Christina (01:19:32.968)
They even go they even have a guy that goes ahead of the house and he has a pole and he he looks like lifting the fires. He lifts the the elect the electrical irres. It's so fascinating. So it could have been

James (01:19:39.127)
Let's go.

James (01:19:45.25)
That in a hundred years just won't exist. And you'll have to explain to a person like what your grandfather did. he was a he was a wire lifter.

Christina (01:19:51.256)
That's right. I c yeah. Well, it could happen and I love you guys and you're so talented. You're so talented. I'm so it's just so refreshing what you're doing, what you're bringing to the world. And I also know how hard you both have worked. Like it makes me wanna cry. Just all so what you have experienced to get you to this point. I just think it's so fascinating. I mean it's twenty thousand podcasts worth listening to. but we only have one

episode right now, so we'll have to have you back. That'd be great. Now let's eat cheese. Let's get that protein and thank you for being here. Thank you for being so lovely to us. And thank you for making a really cool human.

James (01:20:33.706)
Literally any time.

Anne (01:20:37.4)
Yeah.

Christina (01:20:40.67)
Christina (01:20:47.06)
Say goodbye to you.

Christina (01:20:53.876)
I don't wanna say goodbye to you.

Christina (01:21:02.552)
Welcome to the Heartbeat Hotline, 1902-669-4769. I'm the host of a Chat with Heart podcast, Christina Martin, and I'm so excited you called. Leave me your question, a suggestion for the podcast, or a comment about this episode. Please be aware your message may be used on the podcast and social media. Tell me your name, where you're calling from, and it's also fine if you want to remain anonymous. Thanks for listening.

Have a great fucking day. Hey, thanks for listening to A Chat with Heart, produced by me, Christina Martin. Co-produced and engineered by my partner in life and sound, Dale Murray. Dale's not just a wizard with knobs, he's also a killer singer-songwriter, session musician, and music producer. Go snoop around his world at Dale Murray.ca. The podcast theme song Talk About It and I Don't Wanna Say Goodbye to You were written by me and recorded by Dale. Want to support what we do?

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