Jenn Grant: Music, Grief & Activism

Join Christina Martin as she chats with singer-songwriter Jenn Grant about her activism, all the supplements they both ingest, and upcoming dreams coming true. Discover insights on navigating the music industry, embracing grief, and using art for social change.

Transcript

Christina (00:00:00)

Hi, welcome to a chat with heart podcast. I'm your host Christina Martin. I'm a singer songwriter I live on a dirt road in rural Nova Scotia with my best friend Dale and our Calico cat Olivia This podcast is totally just a chill chat with her as soon as you tune in here I consider you one of my little heartbeat listeners I love sharing these personal stories and recording these episodes are great practice for me to try and calm the fuck down and just be myself

If we just talk about it We could shed a light, we could make a new update If we just talk about it We can cut away, we can make a better day

Christina (00:56.216)
Heartbeat listeners, welcome back to a chat with heart. The podcasts were, I invite lovely humans to chat with heart and I get to know them more. so do you. Before we dive in, as usual, couple quick life updates. First of all, Dale is currently recording new songs with an artist named Christopher Brown. And I just have to say it's been so inspiring to hear that creative

energy and unfold. Christopher is, I'll call him Chris. Chris is an incredible singer-songwriter and musician, multi-instrumentalist. And Dale and he are playing all the parts themselves. Chris wrote the songs. His voice is incredible. I'm crossing my fingers that I get to sing on it. I can't wait for you to hear what they do.

Christopher Brown, go check him out. He's actually, he lives in Cumberland County. We both used to work, we met at working through group homes in the community years ago. So very excited for Chris and hope to have him on the podcast. Also, March 6th is coming fast folks and we have a Halifax show on that date. It's also Bandcamp Friday. If you haven't grabbed a spot to this awesome, intimate

show we're doing. It's just Dale and I. Maybe a couple friends might pop up. It's at the Syrup Factory, which is a wonderful house concert. It's about 50 capacity. It's in North End, Halifax. And this is a great, great venue started by Laura Simpson and Scott Simpson in 2011. And Laura's been a guest on this podcast and you'll actually hear a clip from her soon. I'll tell you why. But

In any case, so we're releasing a new compilation album with a new single. It's 20 songs celebrating 20 years of making music with Dale Murray. And these are the deep cuts. I can't call it a greatest hits album because guess what? I've not technically had a hit. But these are the songs we keep coming back to playing live and, you know, fan favorites and our favorites.

Christina (03:19.35)
And I can't believe that it's been almost two decades, or it has been pretty much, of making music with my best friend Dale. And so we have a new single coming out called The Breeze. We're celebrating on that day and I hope you can make it. You can get tickets by e-transferring me money. The information is on my website, christinamartin.net. But if you are a paying patron of mine on my Patreon page and you want to come, you just need to RSVP by emailing me.

And you have a spot because you give me money every month and or year. that is amazing. And every now and then I can do something like this. You know, it's a small way of giving back. if you are either a free member of my Patreon or just the general awesome public, you can still buy a ticket to come and celebrate with us. It's a fairly early evening, lovely setting, and we're going to play all our favorite Christina Martin.

songs.

And I have to tell you,

something else I'm really excited about. So I signed up for Make Do Camp and it's put on by my friend Laura Simpson. And it just, I was terrified to sign up because I'm not big on camping. But I remember this, I went to this science camp in my, between grade 11 and grade 12 in the summer.

Christina (04:48.974)
And it was something very new and nerve-racking and exciting for me. And I knew nobody. even though I did well in in school, like I wasn't super into science, like, but I was curious, you know, like I was a good student and I went to the science camp and everybody there was so much smarter than me. And we had such a good time, worked at this nuclear power plant, Deep River, in Deep River.

And I won't get into my project. Yes, I will. I was part of this environment. I worked in the environmental department with a bunch of students and we designed a basically a giant kitty litter box that you put underground that would absorb poisonous, deadly water, chemically like poisoned water that was traveling through the ground because

groundwater travels in these plumes and you can track where it's traveling into waterways and whatnot. And so there was this strontium night, which is not good for you, seeping into this waterway because it was from containers that were buried at this nuclear power plant years ago. I'm sure I signed an NDA where I'm not supposed to even talk about this stuff, but I think it's common knowledge now. anyway,

Point of my story is I worked on this giant kitty litter box. I have no idea if they actually implemented it, but it was a really cool experience. And so I remembered that how much fun I had and how hard it was for me to leave. I, I bawled my eyes out. I wasn't much of a crier back then, in front of people, but I was so sad to leave the new friends I made. So anyway, I signed up for Make Do Camp, not because I'm anticipating to bawl my eyes out, but

I wanted to be brave and the creative say yes moment in my body came out. So I'm going to let Laura explain it a bit in her own words.

Laura (06:47.949)

Hey Christina, I just wanted to leave you a message. Thanks for registering for Make Do Camp. I am so stoked to have you there as a camper this year. Yeah, it's going to be fantastic. I've just felt like a need for a long time to do something
back out in the woods to make deeper connections with people, get off our phones. And it's a sober retreat, not because it's meant to be something that sober people do, but just to have a break. And yeah, we're just gonna have lots of high level workshops. There's gonna be camp-like recreation, including archery and boating. And yeah, I'm just really happy you're gonna be there and please help spread the word. Love you lots.

Christina

If you're curious and want to find out more, and maybe join me, it's happening in September, 2026. You can learn more and sign up at MakeDoCamp.com. Now, I get asked a lot who inspired you. And honestly, there are so many artists I could name. But I'm going to come back to this particular time in my life living in Halifax where I was surrounded by...

really talented musicians and the music industry, and you know, through government support and whatnot, was really a feel there to help guide artists to become better business, know, self-employed business folks, learn the business of music and DIY. And there were these wonderful women in particular who were out there doing big things.

you know, seemingly on their own and doing it their own way. And these artists I speak of now are like Megan Smith and Jill Barber, Rose Cousins, and my guest today, Jen Grant. So these are women who made me believe that maybe I could tour, maybe I could self-manage, maybe I could, you know, make my own show and my own career right here in Canada, right in Nova Scotia too, and make it work. Before that I had...

I was learning how to write songs and perform and that's obviously a big part of what we do. But when I was living in Austin, Texas, every musician I knew, the, I suppose, top tier ones had day jobs pretty much. And nobody really was touring. You kind of just stayed where you are because life is just too expensive. And there weren't workshops on how to make this work and how to...

Christina (09:26.702)
build your team around you and whatnot. And it was like, the only thing you knew was like, if you were lucky enough to get a record label and you had to go to these, you had to leave where you were living to maybe pursue that. So in any case, the most inspiring part about it was they didn't just have a moment, they kept going, like they kept creating. And all these women I spoke of carved out these beautiful, unique, deeply personal careers that are still unfolding.

Which brings me back to Jen Grant. Jen is one of those artists who feels like a lighthouse to a lot of other artists, other Canadian artists and anyone who crosses paths with her. She has a brand new album coming out March 6th, it's called Queen of the Straight. And she's heading on tour with dates across Canada, she talks about that in this episode. There's a very special Halifax show, one time only it's happening.

at the Rebecca Cohen Auditorium on May 2nd. So go if you can, go get your tickets now because it's going to be, I think the way Jen describes it, an unforgettable immersive live experience. So today we are talking about what Jen's been up to, the supplements we both take, life happenings that shape us and our music and so much more. And I'm grateful for you to hear this one. I'm grateful that Jen took the time to chat with Hart.

with me. So let's grab some tea or keep walking or running if you're listening to this or driving if you're in the car. I hope you enjoy this chat with her with the incredible Jen Grant.

Christina (11:42.168)
Done with your smoothie.

Christina (11:46.442)
do should I do another one just while you keep should I let's try another one okay okay yeah what are you putting in your smoothie this is of interest to my list little heartbeat listeners and me okay

it you do one. It's really aggressively loud.

Jenn (12:01.326)
I put yogurt, but I've got a cold as you know, and I don't feel like dairy is the right, like the dairy is answer to that. It's such an easy protein. There's just some oat milk and some protein powder. This is my new favorite and he had it Sobe's. It's the good protein and it's chocolate fudge. Have you tried that before?

That's right. It's inflammatory.

Christina (12:24.32)
I have tried it. I mint. There's a mint one too.

Well, I know, I've tried like six.

Okay, so like, I'm really glad to hear and relieve that you're getting your protein and that that's a... But as a vegan, are you tired of people, like do a lot of people ask you like, where do you get your protein?

But I'm not a vegan. Okay, ready to blend? You ready?

wait, yeah, yeah, okay.

Christina (12:59.394)
We'll do it again.

Christina (13:12.942)
The funniest blend? The funniest blend ever.

People do ask, I'm a pescatarian, but.

I should know that because we had a dinner date. And you ate fish. I you I used to. Yeah.

He used to be a vegan.

Jenn (13:29.876)
I don't usually put banana in it, I just went for it.

Banana is a great addition to any smoothie. Yeah, it's good. If you like things sweet.

Sometimes I put- Yeah. Like Dale Murray.

Exactly, like Danny Leadwell.

Yeah, do you want me to put headphones in?

Christina (13:48.556)
No, I'm not. No, I don't actually. I'd be mad if you did now. Jennifer, may I call you Jennifer Winifred Pauline Grant?

Absolutely. My first professional named calling.

Did you know that we have something in common with our names? What is it? It's one of our middle names. I only have one. Is it Yeah. Paul? Yeah, so who's Pauline in your life?

Polly.

Jenn (14:18.122)
my mother's mother and Winifred was my dad's mother.

my grandma was named Pauline as well. So that's where I got it from. Yeah.

On your mom's You've been here. Have you not? You were here. We were swimming.

I stepped inside. did not swim, I came. I don't like, I mean, not really. Like if I fell off off of a sea do, I might enjoy that for a second. But then I remember there's things in the water. Yeah. Do you know you love swimming, don't you? Yeah. Well, were you ever afraid of anything in there?

Absolutely, I get it.

Jenn (14:55.021)
I

Jenn (15:00.034)
Sometimes I am afraid, but I do it anyway.

that's the name of the book I read when I was struggling with anxiety.

Christina (15:10.402)
Feel the fear, feel the fear and do it anyway. It's like a really good practice. And maybe I should, you know what? I just signed up for a make do camp, you know? you? Yeah. And it's so unlike me to do anything like that, but I'm, I'm really, I'm going to face my fear and do it anyway. I know it's going to be awesome, but like I'm, I already told Laura Simpson, who's creating this whole amazing scenario for people, make do camp. You, you, basically go to,

camp with little electricity, staying in cabins and do all kinds of things.

It's at Big Cove, Yeah. I went to actual camp there when I was 12 and also like 13, 14, 15, 16.

You went again and again and again. Did you work?

I was in senior girls and then I did this leadership program where we lived in a teepee one month per summer.

Christina (16:12.248)
God, that's, did that make you a leader? Did that, was that the result? I do think you are a leader. I've looked up to you for a long time. And remember when like we all lived in sort of downtown Halifax? Yeah. And you were just starting out. I went to your concert, you did, I think it was your second album and it was at your high school maybe?

What do you think? What do you think?

See you.

speaker-0 (16:29.6)
ish.

Jenn (16:39.582)
actually my first record. was I did it at my high school because they were gonna tear it down.

Okay. I saw all the wonderful things you were doing. was so inspiring. And you and Rose and Jill Barber and I was like, I wonder if I could do what these wonderful magical humans are doing. in terms of, I was already singing, I had a record I'd done in Austin, but I hadn't like learned the business. Cause in Austin you don't learn anything about

Were you already doing it though?

Christina (17:12.162)
the business or touring. Everyone just stays pretty much in one place and has a day job. No one kind of ever thinks I can do this full time or sorry, that was years ago. That was like 26 years ago. And here it seemed to me like you women were really smart and just making a go of it and touring and putting on these beautiful shows and making great music and

you

Christina (17:41.57)
And I thought, maybe I could try this. I don't know. I really inspired because I love what you do. And it's been really fun to watch things evolve, which is one of the reasons why I'm excited to talk to you today. I have so many questions. I promised you I would do all the talking.

Yeah.

Jenn (18:01.228)
You don't have to do all this to you.

Okay, are you really?

You're doing well, Sick.

Thank you.

It's like, it's not the kind of cold that stole your voice.

Jenn (18:14.062)
Well, I hear that it's lower like I would never record vocals, you know I mean I would never sing today or if I had a show tonight I would be worried that I was talking so much like I just literally talked for an hour and 15 minutes to someone about my show

Yeah, I want to talk about the show because I think it's a big one. It's like a dream concept for you. Am I right? I right? That's right. Let's go. hear it. You just talked about it for an hour and fifteen.

Yep.

I noticed how good thing is.

Jenn (18:44.532)
Well, I'm like, I'm working with the Creation Fund to supporting it through NAC. So I just had a meeting with Sarah Kahn who runs the Creation Fund and I basically just went through every single thing.

But I will

I'll give you the short version. I'm going to give you a version. I'm fresh because it's just in my mind now.

I want the version that will help our listeners. Yeah, that's what I want.

by tickets. Whatever you That's what I want to. Well, Christina. Okay, so the show.

Christina (19:15.618)
They can go see it. it's just, just tell them it's amazing and then they'll go, they have to go see it.

yeah, the show is going to be amazing and it's going to be an immersive experience. You're literally going to enter into a portal, into a space. And it's my new record. It's just my new record. But there's different elements in the show. Like we have a projectionist and we have theater and movement and

Yeah, mean, it's kind of a way for me to also honor my ancestors in the show with conversations I'm having. And, okay, I feel like I need to start again. It's almost like there's, can even, you don't even have to edit that. It's just that, it's just that like, there's so many, there's so many things going on in the show. And I'm absolutely,

I'm already sold.

delighted to be able to do it because the songs are, they're my personal stories, the album's autobiographical, but they are jumping off points for the audience to touch into their own stories and tap into grief. There's definitely an overlying, overlining theme of grief in the show. Like as in how to grieve well and also hope and

Jenn (20:46.38)
Also, what kind of person do you want to be in this time in history that is a massive time? so I just feel like as someone who strives to be a good person and a good artist and wants to be an activist, it's important for me to be able to make it something that is bigger than myself, that is for the community and also something really beautiful. And I just feel very lucky with the people that I'm around putting this together.

Tanya Davis is in the show. She is the movement artist. And so we've been developing stuff together as well. And she's sort of helping to tell the stories. And she's also kind of like this other worldly abstract representation of like me and my mother and all women or all people. I think as, you know, I, as a person have always felt very connected to, you know, spirituality and mystery.

I feel open to that. feel like as an artist, like as a painter and a songwriter, it's become a bit of skill to make sure that, you know, keep those channels open. And in this show, all of that is really reflected as well. And it's also very like, very me. So it's very like, it's like, I think hopefully people will laugh and cry, you know, and gets, you know,

be moved by it. So yeah, it's a real gift to be able to do this. And get your tickets now.

Yeah.

Christina (22:26.74)
Yeah, should I host the pre-show or post-show Ouija board party for this?

probably the probably the probably both you may want to.

I think I have to do, okay, your Halifax show is May 2nd. Okay, I'll be in Frankfurt, but I could do something remotely and I'll project it in the lobby. In Frankfurt? Yeah, from, I think we're staying at a spa hotel that night, we'll do it and project it in the lobby of your show. Okay. And do Ouija, I'll just do Tarot and Ouija readings.

Yeah, it's at the Rebecca Cohen.

Jenn (22:52.632)
Thank

Jenn (23:06.912)
Yeah, that could work.

I'm going to get a ticket for my mom so she can go and tell me all about it. You definitely touched on one of the big questions I was going to ask you, is about grief, big and small, and how shaped the way that you create. And how do you not let it take over your world, if it's such a big part of your show? I'm assuming you're not...

I think grieving well is kind of the thing. Like being able to tap into that, being able to grow from it. I think one of the things in the show that I talk about is like, you know, I'm sharing things with the audience and then I talk about, you know, griefs that I've learned from. Because when you have a big grief, you can grow from it and you can...

They see things with a new perspective. You can have more clarity, be more grounded. And it can also help you to, know, once you grow, it's like maybe you can take some other things down and look at them that you've been keeping on a shelf. And so it gets into things like that. And I don't feel like someone, don't, I don't feel grief around me. I feel like I've, I've grieved the things that I've grieved and.

I feel very joyful. Yeah, I feel joyful. I mean, I feel a lot of things, but I feel lucky to have had the griefs that I've had, I guess. I think they've made me who I am.

Christina (24:42.51)
Hey.

Christina (24:53.314)
Yeah.

I get it. My whole last album was about gratitude and for all the shit that happens. And even though you don't want it, you don't want to be like, I'm so glad that happened, but in this weird way, because you are where you are now and you feel great. You have gratitude. There's beautiful people and experiences in your life. It's hard to, because you know that if any of those things had changed, things might be different, who knows? And it's hard not to have gratitude still.

Yeah, think gratitude is something that you need to work on every day. I just think that my experiences around death have shaped who I am and...

Yeah, have.

Jenn (25:43.434)
I think that it's all kind of cyclical and I think we're here and that...

And that we're trying to be the best person that we can in this situation that we've been given in this life that we've been given. And I think that maybe we just come back and we continue to do it and we try to continue to try to grow as people. That's what I'm rolling with anyways. That's not what my dad thinks.

Well, your dad can go suck a goat. I'm kidding dad. my God. Daddy? Come on daddy. Listen, Queen of the Strait is the name of the new album. that's, I think you're the queen of the straight, but maybe.

But he won't hear this.

Sure, yeah.

Jenn (26:26.316)
That's what people think. That's what agriculture thinks. I I love it. I love it. I want people to think that. It is actually more of an homage to my mother.

No, I knew it. I knew it.

But I'm really happy to, I'm going with that too.

It was either or for me. It was either or.

Yeah, it's also just everyone. Just be your own queen of your own straight.

Christina (26:54.862)
She's such a beautiful woman. She came to some of my shows. Yes, she did. And we hugged a bunch. Yeah. And was your mom a nurse as well?

Yeah, she was. was a registered nurse, RN.

Just like my mama. So, okay, I just want to drive home this point,

yeah, drive it home.

Drive it home, Queen of the Strait, March 26th. That's when it's out. You can pre-order it now. I meant 2026. Oh, yeah, yeah. So March 6th, 2026, it's out. And the shows are starting across Canada soon.

Jenn (27:24.302)
March 6th.

Jenn (27:37.004)
Yep, they are starting in PEI on March 5th.

So go to jengrant.com.

www.bengrant.com

And Halifax is on May 2nd.

It's May 2nd when I'll be in Frankfurt, but I will be doing the tarot readings from a projector in the lobby. Yes, perfect idea. And my mom will be there representing me. I wonder if there's another show we can catch though after that. There'll be other shows.

Jenn (28:11.054)
There's the only other, no, it's a one time only thing and it's 12 cities across Canada. it's, that's it. Unless maybe I, it might go to Ireland, but I don't know if that would be a smaller version.

Okay, Jen, thanks.

Christina (28:24.462)
So I should go to Ireland. Okay.

Good, yeah. That's also not confirmed, so.

Speaking of activism, well, speaking of you being a painter, which was spoken about earlier, a long time ago when we started this, you can also, there's a link on your website to go to a different page to see some beautiful paintings that are for sale there. And then on your bandcamp, speaking of activism, you have some prints that you've done of Palestinians, right? And you sell those and that money goes towards helping

they and their families cross the border? Tell me more about that, because that's fucked up activism.

After October 7th in 2023, I was on tour and I came home and I guess first maybe I wrote a song, Hello Everyone Sees Fire Now. then, which was, I mean, I think it did something for people and it has been used kind of in an underground way a lot in.

Jenn (29:36.418)
just like on Instagram really with like to the background music for massive protests going on around the world. then I didn't know, or maybe I the paintings first. I'm sorry, Christina.

You're right. I forgive you.

Thank you so much.

I'm

Christina (30:06.03)
Okay, start again.

Thank so much. So after I home from tour, touring Champagne problems across Canada, I had been very much in my own bubble and really just insular, just promoting my shows, just like, you know, not listening to, not catching any news at all, except for little glimpses, like in motel lobbies type of thing.

And then I was like, there is something crazy happening in the world. I don't know what's going on. It was the end of October. Like I basically didn't know really what had happened. I I knew a bit what had happened, but I was like, I need to get into this. And we listened to podcasts all the way home for like six hours. And then when I got home, I started painting portraits of Palestinian journalists. And the first one I did was Besen Aouda. And I think that I did that because

There was so much dehumanization going on that I just felt this need to paint her face because she's, I was really taken by her. Before she did what she's doing now, she really kind of had this, I think it felt to me, it felt a little bit like a little a la Jenny Town Palestine that she was doing. was like, it was...

And people don't know what I'm talking about. That is just a YouTube thing that I made up during the pandemic. she was like talking about travel, talking about Palestine, talking about, you she was just very like kind of funny. And and then she began just reporting on the genocide. And I because of the dehumanization, I just really wanted to paint her eyes and her face. And I didn't know if I could paint a face because I hadn't painted a face since art school 20 years earlier.

Jenn (31:51.31)
I've just been doing abstract landscapes and stuff. And I painted her face and I was sort of surprised that I, I mean, I was really surprised that I could paint a face. And then I did more. I did like five more journalists and we'd auction those off online every second Sunday for a while. And then I sold prints and we sold them, you know, all around the world.

And they are still on my bandcamp, but honestly, one buys them. And I have them up there for like really expensive. I mean, I was selling prints standing on a bar stool in Ireland for like 10 bucks a pop, you know? But you know, if anyone is inclined, I will print them on beautiful paper and I will mail them to whatever, but they've been, you know, sent to Dubai and we tons of money and sent it over to Palestine Red Crescent. However, it is a, you know, a drop in the ocean of what is, would be needed.

And then when that was over, was Christmas and I felt very down because I felt a real anxiety around what was happening. And if I was not proactive in some way as an artist to using my voice in some way, I felt like just I couldn't deal with that. And so I wrote that song, Hello Everyone Sees Fire Now. Yeah, and then I just started engaging with families and trying to support.

a bunch of families, mean, not a bunch of families, like maybe three families or five families. And then there was a school, the Al-Salam school that we were trying to help support and help them get off the ground, which we were doing. And then it became the breakfast program because there was just needed to feed the kids instead of trying to focus on any education. But basically education is an active resistance and

That's why they chose that. That's why they wanted to. And it's not up to me anyway, it's up to them. And then they were sort of, they've been trying to start that school up again, but because it was destroyed. You know, there's a lot of stuff going on in the world and it's really, can be really overwhelming. And I think that it's important to be engaged and it's important to, do something small if you can. And then these things add up together. It also changed my community and

Jenn (34:11.488)
made me really realize how important my values are, that if I'm gonna spend time with someone or spend time on something, it needs to resonate in a way that really matters for me in order to do that.

I heard Jane Fonda talking about how whenever she got depressed, and usually it was because of either political situation or environmental or something going on in the world, then she said every single time that happened, if she took action, that was an immediate kind of cure in a way.

Totally. I mean, it's kind of a selfish thing. I agree with that. mean, yeah, it's doing good, but it's also doing good for yourself because that totally resonates with me. I was definitely having some...

that, yeah, but.

Jenn (35:17.568)
mental health stuff around it, but not compared to other mental stuff I've had before. So it was manageable.

Do you know what I think about your activism?

What do you think?

Christina (35:58.732)
right out.

Christina (36:03.362)
People are excited. Speaking of Jane Fonda, she is so iconic and such a representation of the type of person, her nanny Lennox, who I'd love to like in that age especially. do you have, I still do Jane Fonda workouts from the 90s and maybe 80s, maybe even the 70s. To be YouTube.

I hope so.

Jenn (36:28.13)
Where do you find that?

Well, yeah.

Do you have a favorite or any workout?

The only thing I remember from exercise in that era was the thigh master. Suzanne Summers, my God. And then people were getting hit in the face and injured because they would fly out and hit them.

Suzanne Summers?

Christina (36:54.35)
because they didn't have strong thighs? Like why g-

Yes, I have in the past, recent times wondered, should I get a Thighmaster? Should I bring it back? Yeah. The Thighmaster, but it's dangerous.

I think it's a good workout.

Only if you don't have that strength and control to think you do and try not to do five different things when you're doing it. I imagine you have strong thighs. Do you not have strong thighs?

I do a lot of squats when I brush my teeth.

Christina (37:23.48)
Squats are really good, yeah.

Yeah, I never used to, but I have an electric toothbrush and it will only give me a smiley face if I brush my teeth for two minutes. I don't know. And so I don't always make it to two minutes, but I've decided to incorporate the squats during that time because you can get 50 done in two minutes, but sometimes I do 25.

Okay.

Christina (37:47.886)
That's why you have a great ass.

Thanks, babe. My mother did Jane Fonda, but I don't really remember it. And I am intrigued. Like I would might try it today. Of course, like Richard Simmons is kind of what I remember.

And I

Christina (38:04.694)
Hmm. we've done some Richard Simmons here, but I go I keep going back to Jane. They're hard. They're really hard and if another

there's also, mean, there was a different mindset as well about the like, you know, I think things are kind of shifting in the, that world where it's more like level two cardio and strength building versus, I don't know, killing yourself. True. But to each to each their own.

Yeah, that's true. I like intense short workouts too, like the best moda. Best moda, the sexy one. Do remember that? Like three women in a triangle and then there's a camera overhead and all over the bits and stuff. Best moda. It's hard, it's 20 minutes and it's sexy.

stuff. my god.

Jenn (38:50.344)
Wow. Did you ever do the class?

I love the class.

Steelbarber has been doing that for like five years and I did it with her for like three months last year. I liked that it was live. Like I liked that I would do it when they were starting it and that it was in real time. That made me feel a sense of community and connection. I probably wouldn't do it unless it was happening in real time.

We do them all the time here. You could do them. Like we could say we're doing them and started at a time and then, you know, we could do that. No, I dig them. And I love that they have so many, you know what I love about that class? And I've done a lot of like just different aerobics and weight training and stuff like that over the years, the, how old am I? 46 years now. And I love that it's, I feel like I've got a full body workout, but it's not

It's not hard, and the moves are gentle enough on my body. I like the repetition. Another workout hero of mine is Karen Voight. I'm pretty sure she has a dance background and it gets really choreographed and awesome, but it's super hard. And the only reason I can do it now is because I did it when I was a teenager.

Jenn (39:49.486)
This is the class.

Christina (40:13.23)
And my body still remembers how to do it, but it's really quick and a lot of things keep adding up and then all of a sudden you're like a dance wizard. In class you don't have to be that, I don't think. And it incorporates all the things like cardio, yoga, Pilates and...

Yeah.

Jenn (40:33.678)
Yeah, I've been really like not doing my workout for the last week and a half or two because of sickness and I'm just dying to like get back into that. It's just when I feel the very best version myself, even if it's just like a walk and like 20 minutes, I just need it. It really. Yeah, I just it helps so much with everything.

Were you into sports? Is exercise a part of your life? No? No.

at all, except for swimming, ballet, until I was like 12 or 13, and a little bit of figure skating.

Yes. Nice. That's really brings back memories. quit figure skating. I quit figure skating because I brought my baby blanket one day and it slipped out of my jacket and then was really embarrassed. And then I told them I was quitting so they gave me the badges because they felt bad for me. Similar thing happened with swimming. Like I wouldn't get in the water until...

I quit everything.

Jenn (41:33.002)
No!

Christina (41:44.59)
until one day it was raining and no one else would get in the water. But I got in the water and it was warm. And I was like, I like this and no one else is in the water. And then I quit and they gave me a bunch of Sorry for me. Anyway, speaking of badges, nothing to do with this next question. But I did bring my supplements here to read off to you.

Ha ha ha.

Jenn (42:09.006)
I just had my, they're in the cupboard. Let's go.

Go to the cupboard, yeah. Some of these I may not be able to pronounce and I may not know what they're for because I took them because they were recommended by my naturopath. But I don't, I just forgot.

Good

Jenn (42:31.686)
I have so much I just take out the ones I'm actually taking right now. Okay. I mean, maybe I'll take a few extra.

Yeah. Case because we'll take turns. go first. okay.

I'm not ready. I'm still getting

I have so many. So many. Okay, well, why don't I say all the ones that I have? Yeah. Okay, I'm not ready yet.

I wonder who has more.

Christina (42:57.966)
You're not ready. I'm almost ready. Do you have any?

I can't even, okay, let me start. Okay, vitamin D drops.

Okay, I've got vitamin D. will meet your vitamin D drops with a vitamin D pill.

Got it. also have that intuable. St. Francis stressed.

what's that, dude? Is that for stress?

Jenn (43:19.294)
I don't know. haven't been taking it. Calcium. Yeah, need to have that apparently.

yeah.

You do or we all do?

We all do. Fiber.

Can you take a fiber pill?

Jenn (43:33.368)
did now I'm like searching fiber gummies right now. NAC do you know what that is? This is such a like it's to keep you not getting sick on tour. Re12.

I do not.

Christina (43:48.629)
B12, yeah, I'll meet your B12, but let's talk about the active form. Do you have the active form?

mmm sublingual a thousand mcg

So your body absorbs it?

Christina (44:01.4)
Huh, okay.

ZENK!

Yeah, I got zinc. Yeah, bisglycinate, 25 milligrams.

For a while I was taking this, hormone harmony. Okay. I don't need to that.

Jenn (44:19.594)
I'm done with caring. And then a centrum prenatal I take. They have the high, because they have the, just started, you I was taking it and then it's got the highest amount of iron.

Okay.

Christina (44:32.8)
Yes, I'll see your iron and multivitamin.

Okay, and I don't know. I got my blood work done recently. How's it going? It was perfect. She said I've never seen such good blood work. I take melatonin at every night.

Looks great.

Christina (44:56.0)
Okay. Yeah. That's help sleep or is it like a cancer prevention thing?

It's to help sleep, but it's apparently good for perimenopause. Do you take... What are Are you joking about the cancer thing?

I heard from someone who was into all these things, all the supplements and naturopath and stuff, and who has cancer, that melatonin has something to do with preventing cancer when you take it on regular basis.

Did they say how much you need to take?

It was a man. You said she had a day? I did not, but probably just like whatever the standard dose would be.

Jenn (45:30.125)
I said they.

Jenn (45:43.15)
That's cool. also, magnesium. Yeah, I already said magnesium, but I magnesium every night. Oh, magnesium and.

I was telling my little heartbeat listeners while you're getting Kleenex, know, go get your blood work done and talk to your doctor and or naturopath to actually see what it is you need. Because you don't want to be taking stuff you don't need. The other thing is...

Yeah.

Jenn (45:56.385)
Yes.

Jenn (46:13.934)
Most people are low in vitamin D though.

Especially because of, yes, where we

And also where we live. It's not super sunny right now. No.

Really? know, I don't know if you've done this, but I went, so I did my ancestor DNA thing and then my genetic makeup, I sent it to my naturopath and she's trained at reading that. It's a different language to me altogether. And then from that, she was able to pinpoint what else my body could benefit from. So these are some that I'm not sure what they do right now, but they have to do with...

preventing illness as well, glutathione, and phosphatidylcholine, choline was one that my body has trouble absorbing. like eggs and stuff, it's in eggs, but whatever, I've got some gene that prevents my body from absorbing it. this helps it. And like she could, it's amazing what they can, this is all science-based too. She's not like,

Jenn (47:00.279)
Uh-huh.

Christina (47:23.726)
It's not hocus pocusy. And even though don't drink and I don't really do drugs, except for fun sometimes, I'm doing this Liver Pro. I do this every couple of years. It's two bottles of this Liver Pro stuff. Because I'm sure there's stuff...

Like milk thistle, is that what it is?

me

doubling down on the L-glue sounding ending.

Torula yeast and some other thing that I can't pronounce. Do you have any others? Any others?

Jenn (48:08.384)
No, think that I just have a huge bottle of chewable vitamin C that I have beside my bed that I just like take in the middle of the night like two times.

Okay, that's in the middle of the night.

Yeah, when I wake up I just take some. and L-theanine sometimes.

Okay, alright. What about any psychotics? You got any?

I got some sertraline, some glenazepam in the cupboard. Okay, I started taking sertraline after my first pregnancy happened, mean birth. And I've been taking it for like seven years except for maybe one year. But I went back on sertraline when I was going on to go back on tour basically, I was still nursing my second child and I felt like I had a lot of anxiety around leaving the kids.

Christina (48:26.605)
Christina (48:52.568)
Yeah.

And just recently, I've added one more thing. It's called Wellbutrin. And basically I told my doctor, was like, you when I was 15, I was diagnosed with ADHD, but like they put me on something. It made me feel really crazy. And I like my brain how it is. And I know that I do a lot of things, a lot of projects. I know that I do have a hyper focus. Absolutely. And sometimes it can get out of hand.

And I said, but the things that, I know how to treat it. Like I know, you know, this can happen with cleaning or painting where it's like, have you just cleaned the house for 11 hours? And now you're thinking about it before you go to sleep. Like that's, that can happen to me. But I also kind of love that about me. But, but there's, I said, there's things that I don't love and they are very simple, but like when I'm doing a fundraiser,

Yeah

Jenn (49:55.638)
and I'm selling earrings. I made it at my cafe or something. And I've got, or like prints or whatever it is, like for these families and stuff.

The list of people's addresses and where they live, Michelle York, she mails my stuff for me, but I still have to get it to her. There was a time when I was doing it on my own though, like I mailed, I went crazy, I was doing so much stuff.

Michelle is your manager, right?

So Michelle York, she's partnered up with Kyle Kunjack. so they do like forward music and she also does like, she runs like distribution stuff too from their house. So she helps me with distributing my records, but also like with the fundraising stuff on the side, she does that for me now too, because I realized I can't handle this. I can't handle like going to the post office or like.

Well, you could have been the only thing you had to do, but you never

Jenn (50:58.316)
Maybe. You gotta lie. I noticed that I was like, I'd have like an email list of addresses, a Google doc, and then a piece of paper, it's all the same list, but I'd be like writing a new list of all these like, and I was like, what the fuck is wrong with me? And also it would just stress me out. I would just be always, always in the back of my mind, basically stressed that I was supposed to get these things to these people. so I told my, I told that to my doctor.

And she was like, okay. And she said, well, why don't you try Wellbutrin? She said, it's not an ADHD med, but it does treat symptoms like that. And since I started taking that about two months or three months ago, I did fundraisers through Christmas and I did not have that issue. Like, yeah, I mean, I don't know. I told her that too. And I was like, I think, and also like I had to get my son's blood work done.

thing.

Jenn (51:56.652)
And she gave me a rec form. I was like, normally I would get stressed out about this rec form and when I'm going to do this and losing the rec form and booking the blood appointment and all these things. And I was like, but it's not, was like, if this is what the well buttern is doing for me, great. It seems, it seems like it is doing something. So, and I also have clonazepam in the car break because I have had panic attacks before, connected to my postpartum and they were so intense that

Yes.

Jenn (52:26.848)
I will never not have that in the cupboard.

Yeah, it's just as needed.

It's just as neat a girlfriend. God. God, everyone, give me a

Yeah. Right. Get over it, Go get your own.

So yeah, my friend Laura Malali helped me a lot during my first, during my postpartum. And basically one of the things that she instilled in me was to treat the symptoms because there's been so much shame and secrecy around mental health and medications. And I think it's an invaluable tool to like know your brain and you get to know yourself even more when you like.

Jenn (53:05.59)
if you think there's something going on and then you can treat it. to treat, sorry, that's the honey. Does that sound?

Honey, sounds like farts, but it's not. But hold on now.

my god, Jesus Christ.

you

speaker-0 (53:20.514)
on.

You gotta treat the symptoms. There's no need to suffer.

The ga-

Yeah, that's right. I've said this before, my S.H.I.E.L.D.P.R.E.M. helped me, well, helped me let go of those invasive thoughts. Then I could make decisions and trim my life down and focus just on what I want to do, what would look like a healthy, normal day to day for a human being.

Invasive, yeah. Invasive.

Jenn (53:46.104)
decision.

Christina (53:55.022)
It actually took a lot of unlearning. you find that like a, almost like a, yeah, just practicing, you know, cause I still sometimes have the impulses to like do a million things and start a million projects. And then I can now way more easily remind myself that actually that's not the path I wanna go down again.

I think I'm really just learning that. I did so many projects last year. I created projects in every space because I felt like my music career sometimes was not going as fast or as big as I wanted it to go. And so I just began another career as a painter to do so that if I was waiting for an email from someone about something with music, I'm like, I don't care, I'm painting.

That's literally what happened. But then when the paintings were all painted, I was like, and now I will make jewelry. And I will also fundraise constantly and mother to children and be a partner and have a clean house and a pet. And I really don't want to do that. I really don't.

What do you, who do you want to get rid of?

Jenn (55:13.762)
Definitely the jewelry.

Yeah, yeah, I haven't seen the jewelry that you made.

I made a whole bunch of jewelry and there were like jewelry and cards from the paintings and was selling them. They were in like five stores.

Do you ever tell yourself, you know what, duh, I can do anything, but what do I really want to do? Yeah, sure. I'm Jen Grant. I can do pottery if I wanted to. It would be amazing. Is that really what I want to do? Yeah. I could knit dog hats. You could do anything, I bet. It would be fucking awesome.

I don't know if the dog hats would be good. I'd be not good at that, but I do really wish I was good at that. No, think, I think, yeah, this is just part of like being in midlife and just getting older and, not, yeah, like just deciding what do you actually, there's like, what do you, what do you value? And also what do you, what, what do you want? You know?

Christina (55:51.33)
They begin.

Christina (56:14.19)
That question, what do you want is so fucking relevant at any point in our lives. My first counseling session ever, it kind of sucked, but the one thing that I still remember from that session, I think it was 27 or six or something, was what do you want? And I was like, holy fuck, I don't know. Cause I think I spent the whole session talking about what everyone else wanted and what they wanted of me. I didn't have as much self-awareness of anything really.

And even today when, you know, sometimes I have to stop and go, what is it that you, what do you want?

Well, it goes back a lot, think, to, let me know what you're feeling about this or your experiences. like, for me right now, this show that's coming up is absolutely wonderful. I'm glad I'm doing it. I'm gonna hopefully do a good job of it. And I hope people come. And then I know there'll be another thing. But I'm glad it's that because if it was just the...

the thing again of like the same thing of when you tour a record and everything. Yeah. I don't know. I want to make a movie. I just want to be in a

Yeah, I'm in a where I want to do something. I'll write something.

Jenn (57:32.856)
Put me in a movie. I swear to God, I just want to be in a movie. I just want to be in a film or theater or something. And that's why this part of the show is so great because there's theater elements in the show. Kind of like this. just want, I mean, I'm always gonna, I think I'm always gonna probably want to make music and write music, I think, and like have concerts, but I do not want to road dog it.

Practicing the

Christina (58:01.934)
Yo, no, I have zero interest in that and that's why I'm a

46 year old woman who has a five year old and a seven year old and

And you do have lot of joy in your life.

I have a lot of joy in my life. Like, I mean, when the pandemic happened, I got a mat leave that I never had before and I was painting and I was like, my God, this is incredible to be home.

I I love home.

Jenn (58:28.47)
I love home so much and...

Speaking of home, I think you and I have a little bit, it's a little bit of a different experience, but we were both kind of displaced at a certain time when we were young. I know your mom and your brother and you were living kind of in a campsite for a while. And you know, no biggie. But you know, that's a big, I don't know at the time if you fully realized it, but as an adult, I'm sure, I don't know about you, but it did affect my

Correct.

Christina (59:01.489)
My nervous system is only now calmed down. just, I actually, the panic attacks will come from anytime I'm about to leave home because I love it so much here. love it here. I have to remind myself, I'm okay. You know, I have to do the talk. I'm okay. I'm okay. It's great. You're going to love this. Don't worry about it. You're not fucking.

fucking add a child in there. Like I used to find it really, really hard to leave my dogs. Really hard. now like, yeah, leaving the children is like, but then there's also this element of like, oh my God, am I alone? I can do whatever I want. Like that's such a like unfamiliar fun thing to do as well. But you have to go through that anticipatory anxiety and really like actually like a feeling of dread.

and I'm just used to it. I'm like, there's the feeling of dread again. Yeah, but I also like tour with my children a lot, which is also ridiculous. Sometimes awesome, also hard. Everything is hard both ways.

What's the cliche? No, is it a cliche? I don't know what the saying is, but, you know, like nothing truly amazing is ever achieved without some kind of struggle.

I never heard that.

Jenn (01:00:24.62)
I mean, makes sense. makes sense. It makes sense.

Even, I don't know, even my, I love my relationship with my best friend Dale, my husband. But you know, we had to go through periods where it was like, are we going to fucking make it? Like, is this, you know, or like my own hadn't dealt with my own shit. Really relationships put all your shit in your face. So then I worked through it. Now I'm good.

Yeah.

Christina (01:00:54.476)
No, that wasn't that simple. I don't want to, well, I want to keep you forever and ever and ever, but I can't. I can't. That's not right. But I do want to ask you about your relationship with your voice as you've aged because it changes. What's your voice journey, vocal journey been like?

It's been a thing. My voice has always been delicate. Like if there's a party at the ACMAs or some shit like that, it's like, I am the first one to lose my voice. And then I have anger around that and like rage because then you're like expected to perform and the whole industry feels messed up. But that's not, this is not an industry thing that we're trying to talk about right now. But my voice is delicate, you know, and, and

So that's the thing that I've worked with. take care of it. And then in the spring I got sick and I, I was using a puffer too often. also, I've heard from people that they felt like I didn't feel like my voice was being heard. And so I lost my voice and I did. I lost my voice for three months.

was using an app to communicate with my children for a while. Like it was gone. Wow. And it was awful and terrifying. And I was back and it's fine. But also this most recent record is all live off the floor. We recorded it in four days. The vocals at the same time as the band. That was not what I thought we were doing.

Okay

Christina (01:02:35.145)
I know.

Especially for someone who's like, feel like my voice is very affected by my emotions, the volume in the room. Like if I'm playing with a band, I always perform within years on stage if there's more than two people with me. And I went into that experience thinking that we were gonna probably record my vocals later, but it became evident after the first song, even though I was at the cusp end of another illness, which I don't know why I'm.

talking about this illness stuff so much, it's been around. It was just like, everyone was like, that was great. But I did have to let go of a couple of things because when you're used to comping vocals, if I was scrutinizing myself or if I'm listening to that record that I just made, I'm like, well, maybe I would sing.

Well, I guess that word I would have maybe saying just a little softer on one end of it or something. instead, yeah, we just, just became fine with it. Like I was just like, this is my voice. I do think somebody, old friend of mine, I sent the record to and he said, I love the way your voice is aging or something. And

It does. And my brother was like, your voice sounds so different. And I know that my voice can sound really different, like because of these things, emotion or like that can affect pitch or that can affect something else. I, it's like, you know, your, if your voice is, if your voice box has these different like timbers within it, it's like, if you go a little bit this way or a little bit that way, it's like either maybe really deep and warm or it's kind of like Dolly Parton or something like hi, Broadway and

Jenn (01:04:32.994)
I feel like I have these subtle changes that I make can really change the performance and the sound of it. And also I think the first time you sing something, there can be an energy to it that is really special and has that like first time energy. because Dan made charts for the band, Christine Bougie, Kyle Konjack and himself and Josh Van Tassel, they didn't know the songs at all.

would play them through the charts like three times. And we'd be like, this is the right vibe or not. And this song will make the cut or not. Because I think I wrote 40 songs in going into the record. Wow. And in three pockets of extreme hyper-focused whirling dervish insanity is what that was. I can hear that it's the first time and that there's like this

energy, this sharing that was going on. didn't have headphones on, people were playing really quietly. And yeah, we just, we embraced that. And it's also kind of like a bit of a part of a resistance against AI music. And if you're listening, my records not coming out on Spotify, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. Yeah.

I love it.

Yeah, so people have to buy the vinyl as well.

Christina (01:05:57.71)
Yeah. Okay. they.

They the vinyl, they have to buy the record, or they have to buy it Bandcamp, but they won't find it on Spotify because as person who wants to be good person, blah, blah, blah, blah, I can't be someone who wants to be an activist. And personally, don't feel that I could put this record on a platform that supports or has been supporting ICE and AI military weapons and generic AI music, trying to replace

artists.

Yeah. Hey, let's not go to Spotify. don't want to be there anymore, but I've been too lazy to take my stuff down. I think...

Mmm.

Jenn (01:06:41.782)
Well, some of my stuff is down, some of it's not. I don't own all my stuff.

Well, I can take my stuff down because I own it. So I just have been too lazy.

over it is part of the movement. But I also like no one I know, you know, I definitely don't. I can it was a big decision for me to do it. Like, for someone who's been spent their whole career basically trying to get more streams on Spotify. It felt like it felt like almost like a career suicide to me to do that.

Well, why not? Honestly.

Christina (01:07:14.286)
It's scary. A lot of people don't know this, but my little heartbeat listeners, like when you apply to festivals or for grants and all that, one of the, you know, kind of mandatory fields oftentimes is your Spotify page. I mean, that's got to change. I mean, I always thought this, but out of kind of fear, to decide, I took my stuff down in 2015 and then three years later I was like,

Yeah.

Christina (01:07:44.014)
Oh, fuck, I should put my stuff back. All of it, I took it all off streaming and then put it back up because I felt like I was missing out. And I mean, it's sad because like I do like the idea of music being accessible to lots of people. However, what's not accessible about having it up on your own website or band camp? And what is wrong with, you know, I mean, that YouTube is free for everyone. mean, so if they can't pay 99 cents on

really? Yeah.

Christina (01:08:13.518)
Remember when even 99 cents or $10 an album, were all kind of like, this sucks. But that was awesome compared to now. it's, I'm just kind of fed up with, to be honest, I know this isn't, I don't talk about the industry a ton, sometimes we do. I've kind of given up on industry related things, but...

Yeah.

Jenn (01:08:36.682)
Me too!

I just don't care. I just want to make music and do all the creative things and I don't care about the people and being trying to, you

It's very freeing to be like, just fuck all those organizations that don't actually care about you or whatever it is.

That's right. you know, you, you, lot of the, like they work for us. That's the way.

Well, that's the other thing. It's like there's this weird hierarchy that shifted at I don't know when that the artists are like the bottom of the totem pole. And it's like, how about you just support each other? How you try to also help the artists? Like, I mean, there's some industry people who are great. Of course, of course. But like, yeah, just feeling like if you're not Polaris long listed or shortlisted or Juno nominated, like that that is going to that that actually shapes who you are as an artist.

Christina (01:09:18.347)
Of course, of course.

Jenn (01:09:32.33)
it's time to stop thinking that way.

Yeah, it's so much more fun.

Basically, we are coming at this attitude from a place of privilege. We've worked our asses off and now we're like, yeah, fuck you. I'll do what I want. And sure, also, if you get nominated for an award or win or something, it's like, obviously that's always gonna feel good, but I am feeling like I wanna be done with that other feeling. Yeah, I mean, I'm definitely done with the ECMAs.

I'm there's privilege in there.

Christina (01:10:01.981)
I'm done.

Christina (01:10:07.052)
Yeah, it was great.

Thank you for my, it's time to pass on that torch to someone else anyways.

Award winner always an award winner. Yeah, there's lots of great music new emerging

Yeah, it's nobody it's not gonna do anything for us At all it needs to be going to someone that need that attention needs to go to someone else

I'm going to spend those weekends, honestly, writing songs. That's what I do. Oh, okay. I'm not. Hey, I love you. I you too. I am excited about the album and all the shows coming up. I I know we talk about Halifax Show, but my listeners are all over the place. let's go to Jengrant.com. Only in Canada for this particular show.

Jenn (01:10:33.868)
and I'm gonna watch TV. Just kidding.

Jenn (01:10:53.14)
Canada though

Christina (01:10:57.006)
Which is amazing that you're bringing it not just like in one venue, which is what I, you know, I've had to do that. Just, oh, I can only afford one venue. Yeah. Like, so that's incredible. Congratulations. let me. Yeah, let's do it.

Let me say them real quick. Okay. These are the places we're going. PEI, North Vancouver, St. Albert, Alberta, Calgary, Sudbury, Kingston, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto, Moncton, Halifax, and St. John's, Newfoundland.

Christina (01:11:53.496)
Okay, well you keep taking those supplements. Keep taking the supplements and doing,

I've never had an audience cheer for me as loud as that audience does.

It was quite loud. I might have to bring a...

Help that audience? I'm not sure if there is some work to do.

You will. I'm excited to... Can you... You and I have a date at Soberish in Halifax sometime?

speaker-0 (01:12:11.318)
Yeah.

Jenn (01:12:18.546)
I would love to. That's a cool spot. I like those soberish margaritas with that tequila they make.

after your business.

Christina (01:12:26.42)
Ugh, I love, I just bought like a bar, all the stuff that makes a fancy bar from there. So that I can feel grown up again, cause I don't drink any alcohol and I love it. Okay. Date, Jenny Winifred Pauline Grant. Goodbye.

Yeah.

Jenn (01:12:43.726)
You got it. I'm Napoleon Martin. Goodbye. I love you. Love you.

Christina (01:12:58.016)
Say goodbye to you

Christina (01:13:04.859)
I don't wanna say goodbye to you

Christina (01:13:13.474)
Welcome to the Heartbeat Hotline, 1902-669-4769. I'm the host of a Chat with Heart podcast, Christina Martin, and I'm so excited you called. Leave me your question, suggestion for the podcast, or a comment about this episode. Please be aware your message may be used on the podcast and social media. Tell me your name, where you're calling from, and it's also fine if you want to remain anonymous. Thanks for listening.

Have a great fucking day. Hey, thanks for listening to a chat with heart produced by me, Christina Martin, co-produced and engineered by my partner in life and sound, Dale Murray. Dale's not just a wizard with knobs. He's also a killer singer songwriter, session musician, and music producer. Go snoop around his world at dalemurry.ca. The podcast theme song, Talk About It, and I Don't Want to Say Goodbye to You were written by me and recorded by Dale. Want to support what we do?

You can snag CDs, vinyl, digital music, and some weirdly delightful merch like custom puzzles and temporary tattoo packs over on my bandcamp. If you're into keeping indie art alive or just want good karma, become a monthly or yearly member on my Patreon. It's a platform that helps creators get paid to keep making stuff we love. I swear by it. Sign up free or paid at patreon.com backslash Christina Martin. If this podcast made you laugh,

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