Mike Aubé: Cultivating Joy

In this episode of A Chat with Heart, host Christina Martin chats with musician and author Mike Aubé. They explore how to cultivate joy, the state of flow, and mental health and well-being. Mike shares his personal journey through depression and how it has shaped his mission to help others find joy. The discussion also explores the importance of gratitude, the role of mortality in shaping life choices, and the unique offerings of Realm Boutique, a metaphysical shop co-owned by Mike and his best friend Kim. This episode serves as a reminder of the beauty in everyday moments and the value in cultivating joy.

Mike's Music
Core Joy and Mike's website
Realm Boutique

Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction to A Chat with Heart
• 10:25 Meet Mike Obey: Musician and Author
• 18:18 The Journey of Healing and Helping Others
• 24:14 Understanding Depression and Mental Health
• 35:12 Defining Joy vs. Happiness
• 40:18 The Importance of Mortality in Life Choices
• 49:42 Exploring Realm Boutique and Its Offerings

Transcript

Hey, you're listening to A Chat with Heart. I'm your host, Christina Martin. I'm a singer-songwriter, curious human. I live on a dirt road in rural Nova Scotia with my partner in crime, Dale, and our Calico cat, Olivia. This podcast is basically just me chatting with people I admire. I like to ask questions that feed my curiosity and my guests have all taught me something. They either crack me up or they punch me right in the feels.

If you've got questions, comments, or a burning desire to join the conversation, please call my heartbeat hotline, day or night. It's 1902-669-4769. You can also email me at christinamartinmusic at gmail.com. And if you want to throw a little love my way and help keep this thing going, visit my Patreon page. That's how artists like me get paid. Thanks for showing up. Warning, heartfelt content ahead.

we just talk about it We could shut away, could break a no-date If we just talk about it

can cut away, we can make a better day

Christina (01:24.066)
Hello my little heartbeat listeners and welcome to any new listeners. I've got a very special guest today. His name's Mike Aubé

. He's a musician and author, a healer, an all round inspiring human being. Yeah. Those are the kinds of people I like to chat with heart with. First, I just want to give you a little bit of a personal update. Upcoming shows. not.

a ton of shows, but I do love playing close to home. so October 4th, I'll be performing with my wonderful best friend, Dale Murray on guitar and my wonderful friend, Hannah Molonson on keyboard in Black Point, Nova Scotia. It's a house concert.

in a beautiful setting, a beautiful venue, thanks to Diana and Graham Higgs, parents of Rebecca Higgs, for saying yes to this fun event and hosting. You can get your tickets for that show through my website, christinamartin.net, but it's also, the tickets are actually on sale on Side Door, which is a platform that helps bridge the gap between the audience

and artists and the hosts and makes for really beautiful performances. So Black Point, Nova Scotia, I've never performed at this wonderful location before. then later on in October, I have a show with the same besties, Dale and Hannah.

We're going to be playing in Lunenberg at the Opera House as part of their weekend series. So, you can find out more about that on my website and then we're going to be in New Brunswick. Yes. At the beautiful, hall. And what is the name of the hall? my God. Why am I drawing a blank? Probably because I've been fighting a bug. So I'm going to go to my website right now.

Christina (03:39.657)
ChristinaMartin.net. I'm following the process that you're going to go through. Harvey Hall. And I shouldn't have forgotten that because I actually lived in Harvey Station, which is not the Harvey that I'm playing in New Brunswick. So I know my friend James Mullinger, when he does shows at Harvey Hall, he has had some experiences where people have driven to the wrong Harvey. They've driven to Harvey Station, which is hours away. So don't make that mistake.

It's, Harvey New Brunswick near Alma, New Brunswick. And so just check out on my website, the details and the address, but this is a really cool old hall. I got to see James there recently. it's beautiful, beautiful venue and really want to, I really wanted to play there for a long time now. So that's October 26th. I don't have any other gigs booked yet for the rest of the season, but you know what you can check back.

on ChristinaMartin.net or I'll probably talk about it on the podcast if something fun comes up. Yeah, so we are just about finished booking a very short, well, a couple weeks long tour in Europe, in Germany specifically, next April, May. And I don't have the tour dates posted yet, but I'm working on wrapping that.

all up and posting that and announcing officially soon. So stay tuned. we don't do a lot of touring anymore. You know, I'll be honest, it's, it's, it's very, it's been very challenging to get the momentum and find enough resources to make that happen. It, things have changed, maybe changed in me, but also since the pandemic. and so we've been, I've been focusing on

kind of all the things that really matter to me and playing less, but when we do play, really making it count. And like this last weekend, we got to share the stage with Joel Plaskett in Bridgewater, Nova Scotia down on the waterfront. was such a beautiful setting. think they had about 250, 300 people come out and we got to play. That was really fun. But then we got to watch a master perform and share his stories about the songs and

Christina (06:00.684)
you could hear a pin drop every, he really had everybody under a spell and he was able to, Joel was able to take requests and like, just go with the flow and kept the show going. It was just really magical. He is, I mean, I'm, I don't think I've ever seen him perform a whole show. we've, we've met many times in passing and,

and shared the stage at fundraisers and whatnot. And he's always been, you know, such a great person to talk to and, you know, he's a star like in, yeah. So it was, but it was, I've never seen the whole show and it was really, and it was just him, him and Snickers, who is his sound engineer that he travels with and Snickers helps with so much. And we love Snickers too. So it was really a treat, really a treat last weekend.

my point being that, when we do go out and tour and do shows, it's, it's a treat. You know, we're not doing it as much anymore, but when we do, it's got to tick all the boxes for, for me at my, at my stage and my life and, and my, you know, I guess my core values and whatnot. So just know that every show you come to is taking a box for me.

And I love it when you come out and support and I wish we could do it more and maybe we will someday. So let's see. I just launched a new single called Golden Tears. If you haven't checked it out, it's a song I wrote about a woman named Joanne Frank and it's really a bit of a love letter to the Elizabeth Fry Society of mainland Nova Scotia and Joanne's experience.

with them and I, another magic moment we played at the Carleton and Halifax early September a couple of weeks ago, and I got to meet Joanne for the first time and she came out to the show with Emma from Elizabeth Fry Society and, and I just, it was just so awesome, like to meet her and see how wonderful she's doing and to meet her husband. And, I hope Joanne and I get to hang out.

Christina (08:24.59)
Again, actually, I know we will because we're going to have Joanne and Emma on the podcast in the future. So I'm working on making that happen. So I have a heartbeat hotline that you can call. You can leave a message on and let me pull up the phone number. Though I think we say it a million times on the, in the intro maybe. And at the end, here's the number. One nine zero two six six nine.

It's an actual phone number you can call and leave a message, a comment, anything you want. You can tell a joke and it might get played on the podcast. You can also just email me at ChristinaMartinMusic at gmail.com. If you just want to say hi, that's great. I don't get a lot of calls and I don't get a lot of emails. I just want you to know I'm here if you need me or if you want to share something.

Maybe you want to wish somebody a special happy birthday or talk about when you were bullied as a kid and give a shout out to your bully, anything. All right. So let's focus now on the guest that I have here today. My guest today is Mike Aubé. He's a musician, singer songwriter. He's an author.

And I mean, he does many things actually. And part of his mission is to help other people find and maintain a sustainable sense of joy and calm and healing in their life. And I do shine a light on his book, Core Joy, which I've read and I encourage you to pick up a copy online or in the boutique that he runs with his friend, best friend, Kim. The book is called Core Joy, Cultivating Sustainable Deep

happiness by Mike Aubé and I think his story is about all kinds of things resilience creativity and you know finding meaning in your life and Let's dive in. Let's dive into this great chat. I had with my friend

Christina (10:41.442)
Hey Mike! Welcome to a Chat with Heart Podcast!

Howdy!

Mike (10:47.589)
thank you so much, Christina.

fun. I haven't done one in a while and I think it's been a couple years that I've wanted to have you on here and so I thank you so much for your patience and also I want to thank you for putting such beautiful things out into the world.

thank you so much. Yeah, I'm really glad we were able to do this.

Yeah, you had a good you're having a good day so far. You went for a jog you said or a run. Sorry jog run. Is there a difference?

Yeah, well, it was it was more of a jog today. I did a little bit of intensity. I'm kind of coming back from an injury. So I'm taking a little easier, but I'm also training for a half marathon in three weeks. So

Christina (11:35.133)
geez, what does that entail?

Marathon is 21. Yeah, 21 kilometers. Just running.

Mike, I just vomited in my mouth a little bit.

I know you stay pretty active, but you don't run a whole lot.

I don't. I did when I was younger and I would try to run over an hour to get to that, there's that point where your body releases some kind of an adrenaline that makes you feel like you're high. Yeah, super fun. And then that you could keep going and going. And now my physical activity routine is so, I mix it up.

Christina (12:15.97)
Like I just try, I like running when we travel, because it allows me, especially on tour, because when you're touring, as you may know, you don't have a whole lot of time to go and see things. So the running part would be when I could explore the town and like the little cobblestone alleyways and where the baker was and that kind of thing.

Yeah, yeah, I took my daughter to New York a few years ago. And yeah, that was a nice thing that I liked about running too, is that I was able to cover more kind of territory and see more things in a shorter amount of time.

Hey, I wanted to start with some playful and personal fun questions before I kind of dig into, I want to talk about Core Joy, the book that you put out into this world and also some of the other things you're involved in. But if you're cool with it, I'm just going to throw some kind of rando questions at you. You ready? Okay. What is the most

Nice, I like it. Yeah, absolutely.

Christina (13:30.776)
joyful sound you know besides music.

The most joyful sound that I know besides music. Wow. The first thing that came to my head was a cat purring.

my goodness, and you have a cat, a hairless cat.

Yeah, yeah.

Oh, I love that. You know what? I'm with you. I think I could say the same thing. Can you tell us a little bit about your cat?

Mike (13:56.75)
I have three actually.

I'm so sorry I didn't give attention to the other one. Just go right for the hairless cat.

regular ones with the hair with the fur. Yeah. Yeah. So I have a hairless sphinx cat named Baz and Francis and Lewis are the others.

my god.

Christina (14:19.214)
Do you have any favorites? don't know if they understand English, so if they're listening to this, maybe you don't want to reveal.

Yeah, well, Francis is definitely my girl. She's like, I'm her favorite. I don't I don't play favorites with the cats really so much, but she's definitely you know, I'm her favorite.

Christina (14:42.026)
Yeah. I know Dale is our Cat Olivia's favorite. Yeah. Well, that's really sweet. Okay. Do you have a guilty pleasure, like food, reading wives, listening, watching shows that always lifts your spirits? Like something you might... Yeah. Yeah. What?

Yeah

Mike (15:05.088)
All of the like all of those categories. My my guilty pleasure in food is

this is so terrible, but it's instant ramen.

yeah!

I love them. I've, you know, I even mentioned it in my book that, you know, my, my sodium intake through the, through the roof. no, I don't think so. I like, I feel like I read an article recently that the, the, you know, the link between sodium and blood pressure may be a little bit overblown. certainly like if you have high blood pressure, it's not a good idea.

I think I...

Christina (15:31.822)
Yeah, is that an issue?

Mike (15:52.23)
but I think people's sodium needs vary quite widely. And, like my blood pressure is good and I crave salt all the time. So I'm like, okay, I'm to listen to my body.

Yeah, same. I'm just going to hope that you're right on that. But you know what? That triggers a memory for me when I was really watching my money and I worked at a middle school in Texas. My go-to lunch was ramen and I would put tuna, frozen peas and corn, and instant mashed potatoes. I would cook that and whip that up and I was obsessed.

I don't do that anymore, but I'm with you. There's a comfort in like ramen noodles. Yeah. Yeah. Love it.

Yeah guilty pleasure on like watching like, you know shows and things I don't I don't I try not to watch too much but The the medical show house house MD I like that one

I have not watched that. I know of it, but I've not watched it. You're not into the reality TV. I feel like a lot of people get sucked into reality TV.

Mike (17:13.72)
Not so much. My friend Kim, who I run a Realm boutique with, she watches some of those and she got me hooked on a few. We did a RuPaul's Drag Race five or six years ago. Yep.

I do love RuPaul. I just watched Ru's master class.

Already.

Yeah, it's very uplifting. Especially when you... I really am drawn to people who are... people like you that I'm very curious about and I want to surround myself with information from people who are putting beautiful things and energy and encouraging other people to do that and be on their path, even though the world is scary and there's all these horrible things doing. That's just how I...

try to simplify it where you can really, it's really easy to feel, you know, helpless sometimes. And the thing that I can do as a way of serving others, there's a couple of things that kind of pop out now when I felt so helpless before is like, okay, just keep making your music and putting it out and singing for people. And then, and this podcast, you know, shine a light on what other people are doing. And do you feel that way about, your work as well? Like this is your way.

Christina (18:35.511)
of serving others.

Yeah, absolutely. I'm not doing it for the big bucks, you know.

No? What? I'll send you your check for this podcast after.

early in my career with songwriting, it was definitely self-focused. It's learning about myself and putting my authentic self out there. as you start to put it out for people, you see what

impact it has and then I think the motivation shifts a little bit.

Christina (19:27.864)
Yeah.

Totally. Yeah. And so the reward that we get is less about our own... I mean, there's still some ego gratification for sure, but the purpose of it shifts towards other people, definitely.

I'm curious if you think that part of that shift in evolution is because you've done the personal work to grow and expand yourself and you, not that you don't suffer or have pain and struggles, but that you are more capable of coping with those. And so you feel like you more space in your life to serve others or celebrate others or sing about or write about, yeah, the positive things in your life. don't know.

That's.

Yeah, yeah, no, I think so. I think, you know, you

Mike (20:30.082)
think I got to a point where I healed a certain amount from the struggles that I had and...

Yeah, I got to a point where it's like, if I can help other people who suffer from the same types of things.

Yeah.

You know, that's, that there's a, there's a saying, you know, about the, the, the wounded healer, right? We, are best able to serve others and help them heal. If we, you know, if, if our paths are somewhat similar, it's like, don't, I don't know that I'd be able to help people who have, you know,

for example, eating disorders or something that I haven't lived through as much as other things that I have lived through.

Christina (21:30.166)
I never thought about it until now, but when I was younger and like I would have read books and true stories from people who I learned a lot from because I found something similar, relatable and thought, my goodness, like, okay. I can, you know, it sounds cliche, but like, okay. They, they made something of their lives and they seem to be doing well and healthy and fine.

happiness or joy and so there's that kind of at the time you go, I could too, this is inspiring. I know there's probably lots of small and big things in your life but what's something bad that happened that led to something really positive and it doesn't mean

Like I don't mean something that you wish or you're glad happened like a bad, but like I think you can have bad things happen that you wish had never happened. But at the same time, you're grateful that it happened because it, it really did make you stronger and make you who you are and lead you to people in your life. I guess you could say that about a lot of things, but if you could think of an example, I think you would change the world with this podcast right now.

I guess the primary thing, it's not so much something that happened to me, like something external, but it's just the experience of going through a fairly lengthy depression. was kind of my origin story, if you will, about what I'm doing now.

Do you think I'm doing these things now as a result of that? Like I don't want to go back to that or that it opened it up to, this actually brings me joy and gives me purpose. But is this constant reminder?

Mike (23:29.426)
well, no, I think, I think it's more that it opened it up, as opposed to, know, should say there, there, there have been the odd time where I'm, you know, going through a tough time and down in the dumps. And there's that reminder that I don't want to go back there. but, but really it's more about having opened up.

something more positive that I can share. I think that's the primary motivation.

When it comes to depression, like in your experience, and this is something I've lived with as well, live with, but I know everyone's experiences, so it can also be different even though there's similarities, but when, do you experience it on and off or are, like, do you see depression as something that happened at one point in your life and that you are now, I don't know, either in remission or kind of healed from that?

Like how is that in your experience?

yeah, I would I would say in in my experience the the difference now between back then is you know the the time frame of You know how long I might be in a funk before I am able to pull myself out of it You know the the the period that I'm talking about was you know

Mike (25:10.072)
basically two years of, you know, hopelessness and, you know, all those wonderful things that go along with depression. so, you know, I don't, I don't think, I don't consider myself, you know, completely, completely healed or that I'll never experience those sorts of, States again.

But you know, think someone who has, you know, decent mental health will still feel hopeless on occasion. And so it's about, it's really about how we're coping with daily life that I think really defines our mental health.

Yeah.

Christina (26:07.49)
because you've gone through it for two years and then maybe shorter periods, is there at least a comfort in knowing, you know what, I've been here before. know I, you know, time in time and with certain tools, I can get back out. I don't know exactly how long this is going to last, but I at least know I'm going to come out of this and it's kind of up to me.

Is there any part of that thought process when you're in it?

Yeah, yeah. And I think an important thing to look at or to think about too is that I've gotten better at communicating where I'm at with other people. think one of the most sinister parts of depression is that you, at least in my experience,

I felt that I didn't have the worth or whatever it was to be like, I felt like a burden to other people during that time. So it's like, I didn't communicate what I was going through. And I think now it's, you know, it's essential that I communicate when I'm feeling down. The interesting thing that popped up when you, when you talked about

You know, kind of this, this idea of kind of self monitoring, like this being able to step away from ourselves and say like, yeah, I'm, I'm kind of in a bad place right now. You know, this will probably, you know, this will pass those sorts of things. There's a, there's a, there was an interesting term. this came from kind of, forget who it was. was like Timothy Leary or one of the, you know,

Mike (28:09.226)
psychedelic psychologists in the sixties and they called it that we had a bio computer and we could, the term was self metaprogram. So it's like, can kind of step away from ourselves and change the pro, you know, the programming of our brain essentially. And I think sometimes when, when I was in, you know, really challenging

mental states it's like I couldn't even step outside myself I was just stuck in my head and there wasn't this like kind of you know internal parent or internal therapist who could look at my kind of look at step outside myself and look at myself and say okay what's going on

love to hear more about your experience with your tools.

Definitely. Well, I'll start with gratitude because that was definitely the biggest tool for me was taking gratitude out of just something that I felt on a whim to something that I kind of practiced in my life in a mindful way.

Yeah, you know that that was probably one of the biggest was having, you know, a set practice for gratitude. For me, that was just as simple as, you know, the first thing that I do when I wake up and the last thing I do before going to bed is give thanks for something.

Christina (29:48.312)
Yep.

Christina (30:02.216)
Just like just out loud or do you actually write it down?

just, just in my head, usually when I, when I was first starting my practice, I wrote it down. I read the Rhonda Byrne books, the first two, at least, the secret and the magic. And so in the magic, she does a 28 day gratitude practice, which that was my kind of starting place. So I did there.

the 28 day practice where you 10 things that you're grateful for every day written down plus some other exercises. And that, you know, that was the beginnings of it. And I think it gave me a kind of solid foundation of practice. you know, once I had that under my belt, I just did, you know, in my head. Yeah.

Yep.

Christina (31:00.782)
I love it. I do it too. And for a period of my life, was something I kind of forced myself to do because I knew I was really struggling to see the good things in my life. I kind of, part of me knew they were there, but it just, they weren't so clear. And then I was leaning on the negative and I wanted

Yeah.

Christina (31:29.022)
more of my brain space to be leaning on the positive because it feels better and it opens the energies better. have more energy for some reason. So I'm a big supporter of that and I love that you talk a lot about gratitude in your book, Core Joy.

Right.

Mike (31:51.65)
Yeah, I should say that my practice definitely comes and goes as well, like what you say about meditation. Some days I'm better than others, but I do find that my energy is better when I am focusing on things that are positive.

Yep.

Christina (32:15.886)
That's interesting. I'm the same. And I think there was a period of time where I would develop these habits. Tell me if you're like this too. And then I would step away from them and then I would feel guilty and then I would have anxiety and then I would feel terrible again. And I was like, what is up with this? but what I've learned is that, so you can, you only have so much time in a day.

to, you know, before you start really stressing yourself out. So if you're practicing something and you're living, if you're living in joy and you're, you know, you've learned and you're actively out there walking the, you're walking the walk, walking the talk. You're not just talking, you're actually living and feeling and all that. Then I do, I personally think it's okay to, you know,

take a pause from certain habits that got you there. The last thing that's not helpful at all to feel like guilt or terrible about yourself or whatever. But I do believe in routine and all those things and having a healthy routine, but I also might cut yourself some slack. You're living it. You're good. You're living in gratitude.

Yeah, absolutely. One of the things that came to my mind too is that

know it's it's great to want to think positively but our you know our evolutionary mind is brained to focus on the negative because we you know it's it's a safety it's a safety response it's you know you know as when we were living out on the savanna we had to watch out for

Mike (34:18.936)
the lions coming to eat us, right? So focusing on the negative is a survival mechanism. So there's nothing wrong with that per se, but we have to, this life where thankfully most of us, not all of us, but a lot of us don't have to worry about our immediate safety.

Yeah.

Mike (34:49.197)
but there are long-term stresses that we have to worry about. And if we focus on those too much, that's when we start to stew in these bad biochemicals like cortisol and all that sort of thing. So I think this healthy balance of being able to live in gratitude even when you're stressed is a...

what we're aiming for. Look at our cultural evolution in terms of mental health. think that's one of the great things that's happening right now is that people our age never learned to regulate our nervous systems. That wasn't even a thing when we were kids. But now some of those practices are starting to make their way into childhood education at some of the better schools and stuff. So that's great.

Yeah

Christina (35:49.208)
Yeah. I do want to shine a light on the book, Core Joy. You define joy compared to happiness or contentment. How are those different? Because I don't even think I really thought much about that. Everyone just is like, you happy or are you not happy? So can you talk a little bit about the difference between those things, which you do break down in your book and everybody should go read the book.

Yeah, well the way I look at joy is that it can be deeper and kind of more sustainable, you know, emotion than happiness or contentment. So I look at kind of joy as this kind of deeper spiritual

thing, as opposed to, you know, the way we look at happiness sometimes is dependent on our circumstances. So, you know, I'll be so happy when I get my degree or, you know, I'll be so happy when I get married or what have you. Whereas joy is kind of this, it is in a way maybe closer to contentment. It's this

I think being comfortable in your own skin as a human on this planet and I think, you know, kind of a deep appreciation for how miraculous it is to just be a human on this planet. Whereas, yeah, happiness or contentment can be fleeting or, you know, more surface level. Let's not say that you can't have deep happiness too, but...

To me, joy is a little bit more, is a little deeper.

Christina (37:51.69)
So you can feel joy at a deep level, but you could still be simultaneously, let's say, unhappy, maybe with things in your life. Like, I feel that.

I think that's the way I look at it. It's like, okay, you know, maybe this relationship's not going well and I'm unhappy about that. I have this, you know, joy, that's core of joy in my heart that's practically unshakable.

you back, back when I was younger and I was, even though I'm, I, I don't subscribe to any kind of organized religion now, I was brought up in an organized religion. to me, core joy is the closest thing I have now to, you know, just a love for God, right?

Interesting. On page 40, I love this part, even though it sounds really morbid. You remind readers that we're going to die. We are mortals. So enjoy it while you can. I just, I love that so much because I, well, I mean, it was relatable to me when I was young and I had experienced losing my father and, you know, being with him as he was dying. And then

having that experience change everything, the choices I made after that. And death became this beautiful reminder to follow this, what I call, path with heart now. I still feel that way. When I feel like I'm getting off path a bit, I come back to this idea that I am not going to be here forever. I don't know how long I'm going to be here.

Christina (39:49.818)
what matters most, that my relationships are good. am happy with who I am. There's nothing to really be afraid of. I'm in this lucky position right now. It's kind of a position of privilege. I'm not rich. And I feel like, then if I don't really have to worry about that, then what do I want to do? And why don't I just do it? So it's this nice reminder.

to do the things that are really important, I guess. Is that where you were going with that?

Yeah, when I was younger, I didn't really think about my mortality that much and You know, I had some interesting experiences which I talked about with psychedelics which you know You know if you For those that don't know if you take enough of them you feel like you're gonna die and you feel like you have died and those those experience

those experiences kind of got me thinking about death a lot. yeah, so I mean, now that I'm getting older, I definitely look at the clock ticking more than I did back then. yeah, it does motivate me in a way to squeeze what I can out of life for sure.

Do you have a bucket list?

Mike (41:29.55)
I don't have a particular, like, I've tried the bucket list and yeah, I'm pretty easygoing and kind of loosey goosey about my bucket list. I don't have a lot of really specific things.

Yeah, that's okay. I, in some ways, and I don't know if you can relate to this or not, but like when I was younger, I would never have dreamed that I could ever record an album, record a song in a studio. And then you do that thing and you're like, well, I'm, I'm really happy. Like I'm really content or happy, or like, I can't believe that happened or, then if you're lucky enough, something else comes along that you

Yeah.

Christina (42:17.354)
never could have dreamed of. and, know, sometimes I legit am like, I am the luckiest girl I, you know, I've found I've had love in my life. Like, I guess I could make up some more things I want to do, but there's a little part of me that feels bad for not necessarily having massive bigger dreams to become president of the United States. Although

I think I could do a good job, I'm just saying. I think you could too, Mike. Thanks. However, I think that's actually kind of cool if you don't necessarily have a bucket list.

Yeah, I mean I feel like I feel like a lot of those things change over time like if you had asked me like 10 years ago What was on my bucket list? Gravel would have been a big one. Like I might have said I want to visit all seven continents I think I might have written that down at some point and that That doesn't really seem as important to me anymore You know

Yeah, good point. Things can change. Your desires can change.

I think I'm headed maybe more towards buying a little homestead and raising animals and growing food now.

Christina (43:46.158)
Yeah, I'm with you. I'm with you. I also love that you talked about the state of flow in your book as it triggered for me. I don't know how I got my hands on this book in high school, but the book Flow by Michele, I cannot pronounce and I've never been able to his last name. Can you?

Yeah, I think it's pronounced Sint-Mahaly.

Okay. Thank you, St. Mehalie. A great book that actually, it affected my decision to not watch television for most of my life. As I remember reading in the book about, I don't know, just, guess that being like a passive form of entertainment that wasn't, and it made me think about

I

Christina (44:38.336)
all the time I could be spending like reading a book and or making something or having an experience that fueled me some other way creatively. And I'm due for another a reread of flow for sure, but you mentioned the state of flow and can you talk about what the role that flow plays in joy and cultivating joy maybe?

Yeah, yeah, the, the, you know, the, experts in, in flow and St. Mahaly himself kind of scoffed a little bit at, you know, the, the idea of flow being associated with happiness, which is kind of funny. but I see it as, you know, flow, you know, the, more we can get into to flow.

the more we feel on purpose, the more we feel, you know, that we're accomplishing something in an efficient way. I think that contributes definitely to joy. Because I think, you know, when you're in a state of flow, you're doing something that matters to you and you're doing it

know, you're having easy success with it. So that's definitely joyful in my books. But yeah, I guess St. Mihaly was not happy about his theory being applied to as a theory of happiness.

Yeah, interesting. Well, my experience with flow is that what I guess helps me know when I'm in it or not is I really can relate to that. The experience of you are doing something and you're thinking it's like you're not aware of anything before or after like you are in it. You time and hours and hours can go by even

Christina (46:52.96)
Okay, sometimes I get hungry and that will interrupt, but I could go longer without eating. Otherwise, I'm constantly thinking about snacking. If I'm bored or doing something I don't really love to do. You don't necessarily want to do it forever, it's just this, the ultimate experience of being present is how I know it.

Yeah. For me, songwriting was the best kind of flow example and activity. Especially when you get to a point where, you you kind of know where the structure of the song is going and maybe you've got like the chorus and then it's about fleshing out the rest. That's when the flow state usually hits for me. It's like...

Yeah.

Mike (47:46.55)
I'm off to the races then.

And is it the same in putting together a book?

prose writing is a little bit, it's definitely more methodical. definitely do get into flow states with prose writing, but you know, in terms of the like amount of time I can sit there and forget that I'm hungry. I think it's, I think that that type of flow is more likely to happen when I'm writing, you know.

poetry or music as opposed to prose.

Yes, well the thing about songwriting, which I love too, is that it can all fit on one page and visually I can see it and almost kind of map it out. I mean, I've never published a book, but I certainly daydream about prose writing and

Christina (48:51.086)
but there's a bit of an overwhelm because they can't see it all necessarily on a page and it feels overwhelming. I think there's gotta be a practice or a trick to help organize that so that, like mind mapping might be something that would help me with that, but it may be others to break it down into bits and organize it so that it doesn't.

feels so overwhelming, you know, because it is a lot, it's a lot more. Not that songwriting is super easy always, but when you do something long enough and it does fit on a page and there are patterns and you get better at it, sometimes it does flow pretty quick, you know? And that's enjoyable. Yeah.

Yeah, I like that I can, you know, with prose writing, it's usually like I'm sitting at my laptop doing nothing else for, you know, an hour or two. Whereas with songwriting, I can be like bopping around my kitchen and, you know, the lyrics are over on the table and I can be walking around with my guitar staring out the window. So it's, I think it's easier to get into flow for me because of that.

Sitting at a computer is not fun.

Tell us about Realm Boutique and how it came into being and let's get people to go. I was there recently with my dear friend Chris DiCchio and we had you do a tarot reading, which was so much fun. So yeah, tell us about Realm and what people can expect when they walk in. I love the place. I love it.

Mike (50:33.954)
Yeah, yeah, Realm is the brainchild of my best friend, Kim Bennett. Kim, we call ourselves Will and Grace, except I'm not gay and she's not a natural redhead. yeah, yeah, so she opened the shop six years ago and we are a, we call ourselves a metaphysical boutique.

Hey Kim.

Christina (50:46.146)
Yeah.

Christina (50:51.214)
I love it.

Mike (51:03.17)
But we do crystals and minerals. We do jewelry. We do incenses. We have a wonderful curiosity section where we have mounted bats and bones and mummy wraps and all these weird kind of curiosities and oddities, which is kind cool.

Yeah.

Mike (51:31.584)
And, you know, self-care products, it's a pretty chill, you know, clean environment. People come for the vibe sometimes. They just come in and say, you know, I don't want to buy anything today, but I just want to hang out in this beautiful space.

It's just a energetically lovely feeling to walk in and look at things, touch things, talk to Mike and Kim. maybe, the cat there sometimes?

Sometimes, yeah. The Baz is the hairless cat. Yeah. Prior to the pandemic, she was there maybe five days a week. And lately, it's been quite a bit less than that. But she still comes in every once in a while.

Yeah.

Christina (52:24.844)
And tell us where can people find core joy cultivating sustainable deep happiness? Where can they find your book more about your music and even realm?

My stuff, you can start at MikeAube.com for the book, my music, Mike Aubé music on most platforms, YouTube, Spotify, et cetera. Realm is realmonelm on Instagram and realmboutique.ca.

And would you mind if we used one of your songs at the end of this podcast to let people know so they can hear what your beautiful music is like?

course, absolutely.

Yay! Well, thank you, Mike, for chatting with heart with me and in your work and your book and your conversations. I think you remind us that, you know, even in tough times in the world, when it feels like we should be way further ahead as a society, there are really good people everywhere in beautiful pockets of the world, like in Wolfville.

Christina (53:43.928)
spreading joy and love and I believe that matters. And that's you. I'm talking about you.

thank you so much. I appreciate you and thank you for having me on today. I'm my girl on a swing Under ducks and tornadoes Picking shells on the beach Sand between our toes Those family dinners where you get so high

sunsets that paint the sky. I'm thankful for these little moments together.

Mike (54:32.142)
They all add up to bigger blessings together.

together

Mike (54:50.958)
Christina (54:57.454)
I say goodbye to you

Christina (55:06.742)
Say goodbye

Christina (55:18.169)
1902-669-4769. I'm the host of A Chat With Heart podcast, Christina Martin, and I'm so excited you called. Leave me your question, a suggestion for the podcast, or a comment about this episode. Please be aware your message may be used on the podcast and social media. Tell me your name, where you're calling from, and it's also fine if you want to remain anonymous. Thanks for listening. Have a great fucking day.

Hey, thanks for listening to a chat with heart produced by me, Christina Martin, co-produced and engineered by my partner in life and sound, Dale Murray. Dale's not just a wizard with knobs. He's also a killer singer songwriter, session musician, and music producer. Go snoop around his world at dalemurry.ca. The podcast theme song, Talk About It, and I Don't Want To Say Goodbye To You were written by me and recorded by Dale. Want to support what we do? You can snag CDs, vinyl, digital music,

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