Michelynn Touesnard: Living with Cancer - The Power of Advocacy in Healthcare

In this episode of 'A Chat with Heart', host Christina Martin engages in a heartfelt conversation with Michelynn Touesnard, who shares her journey of living with stage four colorectal cancer. The discussion delves into personal experiences with cancer, the importance of advocacy, and the emotional and relational impacts of a cancer diagnosis. Michelin reflects on her career, the challenges of navigating the healthcare system, and the support she received through family, friends and a GoFundMe campaign. The episode also explores alternative treatments and the significance of living in the present moment amidst the uncertainties of illness. Michelynn discusses the multifaceted approach to cancer treatment, emphasizing the importance of holistic healing, mental health, and innovative therapies. She shares personal experiences with treatments in Mexico, lifestyle changes post-treatment, and the significance of community support. The discussion also highlights the power of mindset in managing chronic illness and the emerging field of precision medicine.

Michelynn Touesnard is a powerhouse of compassion, courage, and sharp wit. She’s a proud mom to four incredible daughters, a Clinical Social Worker with the Department of National Defence specializing in operational trauma, and a dedicated military and first responder spouse—thanks to her husband Brad, who refuses to get a chill job.

Michelynn is also living with stage 4 colorectal cancer, a reality that has deepened her commitment to early-onset cancer awareness and patient advocacy. She currently serves as a patient advisor on several research projects, using her voice and experience to shape better outcomes for others.

When she’s not working or advocating, she’s soaking up time with her family, fishing with Brad, flowing through yoga, painting, or proudly cheering on her girls in their many talents—be it singing, dancing, or sports. She’s the friend who’s always up for deep or hilarious conversations about the messy, magical, heart-wrenching beauty of life. Often, all at once.

Support Michelynn’s Battle with CRC on her GoFundMe: Michelynn’s Battle with CRC, organized by Shelly Forgeron

Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction to the Podcast and Guest
• 1:52 Personal Experiences with Cancer
• 5:14 Michelynn's Background and Career
• 12:31 Receiving the Diagnosis
• 17:37 Living with Cancer
• 22:32 The Impact of Cancer on Relationships
• 29:20 Support Systems and GoFundMe Campaign
• 33:34 Exploring Alternative Treatments in Mexico
• 35:58 Holistic Healing and Mental Health in Cancer Treatment
• 39:03 Innovative Treatments and Their Impact
• 40:55 Lifestyle Changes Post-Treatment
• 44:58 Navigating Chemo and Alternative Options
• 48:58 Hope and New Opportunities in Treatment
• 52:04 The Power of Mindset in Chronic Illness
• 55:13 Precision Medicine and Community Support
• 1:00:49 Finding Joy Amidst the Struggle

Transcript

Christina (00:00.206)
Hey, you're listening to A Chat with Heart. I'm your host, Christina Martin. I'm a singer-songwriter, curious human. I live on a dirt road in rural Nova Scotia with my partner in crime, Dale, and our Calico cat, Olivia. This podcast is basically just me chatting with people I admire. I like to ask questions that feed my curiosity, and my guests have all taught me something. They either crack me up or they punch me right in the

If you've got questions, comments, or a burning desire to join the conversation, please call my heartbeat hotline, day or night. It's 1902-669-4769. You can also email me at christinamartinmusicatgmail.com. And if you want to throw a little love my way and help keep this thing going, visit my Patreon page. That's how artists like me get paid. Thanks for showing up. Warning, heartfelt content ahead.

If talk about it We could shut away We could break a new day If we just talk about it

Cut away, we can make a better day

Christina (01:24.686)
Hi my little heartbeat listeners. Welcome back to a chat with heart. In today's episode, my wonderful guest is an old friend from my university days. We chat about something that touches so many lives and that's cancer. It's scary, it's relentless and it affects more people now than ever before. My own experience with cancer runs pretty deep.

My mother was diagnosed last year and is now, I think she's considered pretty much cancer free, but she had quite the procedures within one year and she was incredible. But my father passed away from cancer when I was just 19 years old. He was 69. Over the years, I've lost friends to the disease and I've had the privilege of knowing survivors, some of whom

have been guests on this podcast. I myself had what's called a leap procedure when I was 22. So I hardly remember this, but I believe they took what they called pre-cancer cells off of my cervix, which no doubt would have developed into cervical cancer. And yeah, anyway.

I haven't had any irregularities since then, luckily, thankfully for modern medicine. Cancer, it's a big fucking deal. And I'm honored to introduce today's guest, my dear friend, Michelin Tonore. She is a true warrior. What does that mean? To me, it means that she is unwavering in strength, courage, and commitment to a higher purpose.

Whether that's protecting others or overcoming personal challenges, Michelin embodies all of that and more. At the height of her career, she received a life altering diagnosis and she's now living with stage four colorectal cancer. But instead of backing down, she's fought tirelessly for the best possible treatment, advocating for herself in a system that often makes that really difficult.

Christina (03:48.298)
She is not just battling cancer, she working for quality of life, fighting for quality of life and to be treated with dignity and to have the best possible care. She wants to help as many people as possible with the knowledge that she's gained from her fight and this episode is an opportunity to listen, learn and share her wisdom. So if you take anything from today's conversation, let it be that advocacy matters.

whether for yourself or for someone you love. And also I want to mention there is still an active GoFundMe campaign to support Michelin's ongoing care and the unexpected costs that can come with navigating an illness like this. Michelin didn't ask me to share this, but I will because I know how much financial stress can weigh on any family in this situation. If you can help, please visit and share or contribute to her GoFundMe campaign.

It makes a real difference. I've posted it in the show notes and if you go to GoFundMe and do a search, you'll also be able to find Michelin. So listen up, share this episode and if you can, support Michelin's journey in any way possible. Let's get into this powerful conversation.

Christina (05:14.414)
Is this your first podcast? I get a lot of firsts. I think you're my hero. I think you're my hero. Yeah. it's, I don't know why it blows my mind. Cause like, see you as like, well, first of all, you have, we have to tell my little heartbeat listeners about your background, like your education, what your career.

Who do think I am?

Michelynn (05:38.324)
the majority of my career has been with the military. And they're not really like a podcast folk. Maybe they're more like they're more like PowerPoints.

Well, maybe they'll be listening to this, right? Cause like you have a huge, huge military audience. So, yeah. But let's talk about your, I mean, we met at St. Mary's university in a psych class. do we remember which psych class? Was it a volcano? Was it a...

I was it like Faisal Junis? Might have been one of his. So were you in the class that I had to do the presentation? We did like a research project and I had Jalyn as part of the, she was part of my project. like, does too much TV cause ADHD? Like the chicken and the egg?

yeah.

Christina (06:32.686)
Oh, how would you have known back then? with... Wait, she was just a baby.

Well, because she loved TV, she would just be locked into it. That was the only way I could really get anything done. Okay, put the TV on. But it was this constant mom guilt. But I was a single mom. I was trying to do university and I was doing research projects and living in same areas. I couldn't throw her in the backyard to go play. So it was tricky. And I think I felt guilty because she was a TV kid.

She turned out pretty fucking awesome. So the moral of this podcast episode is it's fine. You do what you gotta do. Top them in front of the TV, whatever.

She did.

Michelynn (07:18.414)
She was the TV kid, well, you know, it's the iPad kids now. Well, she was the TV kid because she was, she was pre iPad.

So then, okay, so then you graduated from SMU, I'm assuming with a Bachelor of Arts in Psychology.

Then I did a social work degree at St. Mary's or at Dalhousie. And so I finished that degree and at the end of that I had Ivy, my second. She was there for my graduation. She was like a baby during my graduation.

Well.

Christina (07:58.542)
Is it planned? Might I ask? do you think I am? I don't know. Were any of your clan planned? You have four girls. Beautiful, bright, amazing girls.

They're pretty special, yeah, absolutely. No, no, had this kind of like running joke. Actually, I said it as I was like going under anesthesia for surgery. And they were like, okay, this is Michelin Ternure and she has four kids. And they do this kind of like safety brief like about you. And then, you know, they're just about to give me the meds. then they're like, Michelin has a latex allergy. And you know, they're going over the different things. And I was like, hence the four kids.

None of them plan.

Christina (08:42.616)
Good one!

And then he's like laughing as I was, you know, fading into...

Nice. Good one.

I guess. Yeah.

So social work, social work and then social work.

Michelynn (08:57.708)
Yeah, and then the fortunate thing, like with social work and to be able to do clinical work with social work is in Nova Scotia, typically you have to have your masters, but federally you don't need a masters. And because in some provinces you don't need a masters to work clinically. So I happened to get a job as a BSW because I was living in Greenwood and

they were looking to fill a position and I had the right background and I had done some, little bit of kind of clinical work at a military family resource center. So they kind of took me in and trained me up. So was really lucky to get that level of training and a job at that level with a bachelor's. So yeah, so I worked with the military for a while and then when I, we moved around a little bit, so I left that job and.

We lived in Goose Bay and then we came back to Nova Scotia and ended up getting a job in Halifax and in a kind of specialty unit. It's a trauma unit, operational trauma. So I needed to have a masters and I needed to have a certain level of trauma training. So I completed that as I was working for them.

And when you say we, we traveled, we had a girl, this is you and your husband Brad, who I'm assuming you met in at a military party of some kind or something?

Yeah, yeah, well I was going to, I was doing my undergrad, I think I went to like three universities, I couldn't really make up my mind of what I wanted to be when I grew up, so I just really liked university, so I just kept changing my degrees, my focus. But I started out at UNB in Frederton doing a Kinesiology degree.

Christina (10:50.603)
See you in kinesiology.

Yeah, yeah. And so I started out there and he was a new recruit posted in to Gagetown. So yeah, we totally met at a military party.

new hot retreat. Sorry, Brad. We just wanted to... I want to try and make Brad smile and then if he smiles, I want to take a picture. if there's... There's no fish. No fish. Sorry, my little harpy listeners, but I just saw a post recently. It was the most hilarious post that you did about Brad. it's like you did a little research study. You pulled out all the photos of him. In all the photos with you two, he is not smiling.

Don't

Christina (11:32.332)
But in any photo of him in a fish, he is the biggest smile.

Yeah, offensively huge smile in comparison.

It's a little concerning. I mean, I'm wondering what's going on there, but like, really excites him. So that's good. It's good to know that about your.

Yeah, very much so.

Michelynn (11:56.91)
partner. Yeah, just like, visualize the fish next family photo, please.

Yeah. Gosh. Oh, we are going to talk about cancer eventually here, but maybe. I don't know if you feel like it. Whatever. at any point in the last 10 years, or especially recently, have you been thinking career change? Is now a good time or not a good time? Or was there a point where you're like, yeah, this is really, I'm ready for something else.

stuff.

Christina (12:31.02)
And what would that be?

I I felt like at the peak of my career when I got my diagnosis, I really felt like it was a steep learning curve to get into that department and as a social worker be working that level clinically. I'm at a table every day with psychiatrists, psychologists, and working with some really complex cases.

and they're entrusting me with that. I got like every evidence-based modality of training that there could be for trauma. So I really felt like I was really starting to get a handle on it and feel really confident about it. Doing really good work and really enjoying my job. had really great team. I still miss them incredibly, honestly. And I was really just easing my way into a private practice. just started.

kind of a side private practice that year and was had a small caseload but was planning on building it and was really excited about that. yeah, the diagnosis really kind of took the wind out of my sails. Wasn't thinking about any new career change, but going through this, I think going back would be hard.

take me back and my little heartbeat listeners to when you first received your diagnosis, what was that period like?

Michelynn (14:04.162)
Yeah, it's, you know, I got, of course, gone back and forth about this so many times and I think about, you know, what could have been done differently, what I could have done differently. And, you know, you try not to wallow in that too much, but all of it is learning. And then if there's anything, you know, obviously that I can pass forward to people, I do try to reflect on this quite a bit. But for a while there, I think I spent a lot of time being angry. I don't think that's particularly,

helpful but certainly not uncommon with this type of diagnosis. There's a lot of what ifs and if this would have happened or if this would have been found earlier. I don't think it's particularly helpful to get stuck there, but obviously I wish it would have got caught early. And I blamed it on the system for a long time. think being young, being a female, those things all were a huge part in the delay.

of being diagnosed, because it's not too often you see a healthy, 43-year-old woman get diagnosed with colorectal cancer. So that part was difficult. really, more recently, I've been thinking about how much myself, again, as a woman with four children, working in my career at this peak of my career where I'm traveling an hour and half to work every day, have a private practice on the side,

I didn't have time for my health, to be quite honest. And I look back and I think I really pushed it off. I seen signs, I seen things and I didn't want to cancel my day or disappoint someone or not get home in time to cook supper and take the kids to soccer. So everything I really delayed and I did that myself. So that's kind of been a big message that I do lean on rather than getting focused and

you know, the doctors did everything they could within the system. I do think like I was in a, they don't have a crystal ball and they're looking, everything is statistics and what this could possibly be. They can't send everybody for these tests that there's huge waiting periods for when the majority of time it is nothing. Unfortunately for me, it was something. But I think, you know, if I could go back in time, I would advocate for myself and love myself enough.

Michelynn (16:27.416)
to make priority because I was so busy looking after everybody else, my clients, my kids, my husband, and putting everybody else first. And I think that's kind of the message that I actually would like to people to.

So many people don't have doctors right now. And is it like, does it make sense to go to a walk-in clinic and just be like, look, here's my family history or even just like lie? Like, do you think it's? Just be like, actually, like I did see blood in my, like, you know, maybe in your case you did.

I did. Yeah, it didn't even get me there. But yeah, I know there is well It's kind of like the old thing and you know you go to emerge and make sure you say you're you're paying seven out of ten or you're not gonna get You know, it is. Yeah, it is sort of the same thing. You're trying to work in this broken system and You know, I really feel for the health care workers too But certainly as a person trying to get health care right now, you have to get creative at the end the day And I and I think you're right just like whatever it takes depending on the severity of what you're feeling

You gotta do what you gotta do.

So you're given this diagnosis and then in your mind, I don't know if you thought of it this way, but you're now beginning to live with this cancer diagnosis. you've been living for a while now with cancer.

Michelynn (17:53.494)
You just getting diagnosed period, you kind of spend, I don't know about you, but I feel like I spent probably an unhealthy portion of my life worrying about having random health issues. obviously cancer is one of the worst ones. So, you know, my husband and I are driving to the scope appointment that I had and, you know, I'm nervous and

He's kind of like rolling his eyes, like, you know, what do you want to have for lunch once we're down in Bridgewater? You know, like just not like, here's my wife's hypochondriac, essentially, you know, like, just like, because nobody, nobody felt it. But I was really worried, obviously, and concerned. But then to hear the words.

Yeah, like the scope didn't go well. I remember you telling me the story about it. Like you actually were able to see in the colonoscopy, right?

Yeah, yeah, and I wasn't, it was just a sigmoid, a flexible sigmoid scope, so they don't go all the way through, so I wasn't medicated in the same way. people can have a colonoscopy and not remember a thing depending on how they react to the meds, right? You can be quite like sedated. But yeah, I was completely like kind of joking with everyone coming into the room, you know, trying to, it's kind of awkward, you know, I...

I obviously never had a scope or anything like that before and the nurses are there and I'm just like, ooh, lights are dimmed, romantic in here. Like, you know, just cracking jokes because I'm uncomfortable and that's what I do when I'm uncomfortable.

Christina (19:29.678)
They're about to

You're just like, hey guys. Nice to meet you. wicked, I get to see my butthole into that massive screen right there. That's so cool. And so you're just trying to make jokes and everybody's laughing and we're kind of carrying on and they're telling me what to expect and I can watch it if I want. And I was like, wow, that's so cool. And we're chit chatting and then she takes a turn and everyone's silent. And you're just like.

Hey everybody in

Michelynn (20:02.158)
I was like, no. And I said, that doesn't fucking look good. And then she said, no. And then I just, felt this like, I don't know, man. It's hard to, it's just this wave of the most intense anxiety you could ever experience. everything just becomes really surreal. Like wake me up from this nightmare. And I just laid there.

Yeah, it was shocking and she said, we're going to have to take some biopsies. I know what that meant. And she didn't say the word in that moment, but when I get up to leave, the nurse was teary as she was kind of walking me out and she said, you have a long road ahead of you. And then I was like, any bit of like, I must have this wrong. I must be, you you're just grasping.

I'm interpreting this wrong, like this can't be. And then you're looking at everybody, know, like when the plane has terrible turbulence and you look to to the steward to be like, are you guys scared? Like what's going on here? You know, and you're looking around the room to try to ground yourself and everybody's kind of going, shit. yeah, so that it's, it's a rough moment, but I guess to go back to like living with cancer, cause now it's true.

It's been, I'll be going on two years this October, a year and a half now. And it's been, it's a journey, for lack of a better word, or a really terrible fucking roller coaster that you can't get off is probably more accurate. But you're on it for so long that you just eventually adjust. I think going back to my work with trauma,

and working with military members, it's certainly not the same, but I think how our bodies adjust. They're in this war zone, and you're just like, holy shit, and you're full of anxiety, and then your body can only say, get out of there, so often, and then when you don't, it's just like, okay, it just adjusts.

Christina (22:23.382)
What are some other things that your work has, your work and your background have benefited in you and your situation?

No, yeah, it absolutely has. You know, beyond all the anxiety management skills that I think would be like the most obvious part of it, I think really working with that level of trauma and how your body's just in this state of fight or flight when you're first diagnosed. Yeah.

that I was able to I don't know, scan myself and be kind of almost observing myself in a way and being like, okay, this is what's happening right now. And trying to walk myself through it. Sometimes I did that okay and sometimes I couldn't get out of whatever I was, the drain I was circling until after.

but even the reflection kind of helps you for next time. But there was one saying in particular that I would use all the time and I found this to be something that I held onto a lot, I think, right after I was diagnosed. And I would use it with my clients often and it's kind of a Buddhist philosophy, let's say. And the general, I won't say perfectly, but it's along the lines of the only thing certain

in life is death. But the timing of that is uncertain. So the only time that matters is right now. And that became this sobering thought for me, I think, when the shit storm around me would get really unbearable, that would become kind of my grounding thought of, in this moment, I'm OK.

Michelynn (24:25.378)
And I would just have to come back to that moment. Be like, don't think about the future. Don't think about what this is gonna look like. Stay right here, right now. And I'm okay right now. So stay here. That's my safe spot.

Was that new for you in your life? Did cancer really bring that presence, like really kind of throw you into that?

Yeah, yeah, I would say like, think, you know, I would use that saying and I kind of relate it to it a bit. And I would say that to my clients and you know, and I could see them cling on to it, but not until going through this, that it was a completely different meaning and use to it because so much shit doesn't matter anymore. You know, when you're faced with a terminal illness.

really all the bullshit goes away and you don't have time for it anymore. And I think, you know, that's almost like a silver lining in it all is that you start living this like really value driven life that is only has things that matter in it and you don't waste time anymore with bullshit. And that's actually been a gift.

So yeah, I think that saying and all of it just, yeah.

Christina (26:00.608)
Have there been people in your life before your diagnosis that after your diagnosis you were able to go, you know what, I really just don't have time for you? Because it just isn't working out.

Yeah, yeah, your energy and your time become some of the most precious things. Yeah. And you just want to spend them with certain people.

How is this living with cancer, with the terminal illness, affected how your family interacts and how the time you spend together? Yeah, it's...

it's been a bit of a dance, because I'm trying to protect them in the one hand, but I've also been, obviously, as you know, very public about this for the reasons of awareness, and also kind of walking through this vulnerably to show people you can still live. You know what I mean? You don't just have to go home and die from cancer. You're still alive and still do stuff. And I think that's a message, too, that I...

you know, been wanting to get out there, but I've been careful with them about the terminology I use and how that's said. And I try to protect them as best I can. But yeah, their relationships are different. think like we, for a while there, we were doing like Sunday dinners, like making sure every time we would have, we would plan and Brad was really.

Michelynn (27:37.562)
That was kind of his thing and he just wanted everyone to be together and to be eating and have a nice dinner and making that time. So time and connection and all that becomes really, really important. And I think it should always be important, but clearly, you know, those sorts of things for sure. I always joke too, like this, you know, when you have an illness like this and how people treat you very fragile.

And at first you're kind of like, this is kind of sweet. I can literally fucking do anything and no one would be mad at me right now.

You got the cancer car.

The cancer card. And you know, and you're just like, there's this community and everybody's just like wanting to like protect you and take care of you. And there's something really beautiful about that and loving. But then it gets to a point where you just, don't want to be treated like a cancer person anymore. Like, you know, if I just, just like, I just like want to fight about politics on Facebook. Like someone argue back with me right now. Like just like silly. And everyone's just like, well, I'm not going to argue with you, Mish. You know, like.

Right. You're sick. Yes. know, and you're just like, treat me like a human.

Christina (28:51.658)
What's the most incredible thing that's happened since your diagnosis? I do want to remind listeners, because you have an active GoFundMe page. It's still active. can do it. We'll talk about that. People have supported in that way. It allowed you to do some really cool diagnostic.

things and holistic. Actually, I'd love to hear more about that, but I don't know if that's the most amazing thing that's happened,

say, like, yeah, absolutely. Like the most amazing to be supported and so many people just, I don't know, like nobody knows what to do, right? And everybody wants to help you. having a GoFundMe in the first place was like super uncomfortable for Brad and I, because I don't know, there's just something about like, well, you know, he's still working and it's not like we don't have any money. And like, it just felt weird. And then it ended up being

so huge in what I was able to do, to circle back to the challenges within our healthcare right now, being a cancer patient within this system is a strategy, let's say. And you don't realize that until you're in it. So every move is a strategy. You feel like it's a chess game, like do I do this first or that first? And I don't know.

you know, as things have been coming up for me, I guess initially we thought, I'm stage one, this is gonna be easy, you know, cut it out and that's it. And then after that, no, there's two spots in your liver, okay, I'm stage four, that changes things, but don't worry, you're still curable. We can ablate these spots, wonderful. I go through chemo, get the spots ablated, have a bowel resection.

Michelynn (30:59.406)
You're good to go. Amazing. And I have my first scan, but you're constantly thinking, I need a backup plan. need arrows in my quiver, because you're not just gonna just waltz back into life and be like, hey, that was crazy. Whoa, but I'm good now. It's too traumatic to think that you're safe.

So I always had these plans and I looked into treatments in Mexico and I looked into getting a second opinion at Dana-Farber Cancer Center in Boston. And I was kind of, you know, been looking into these things and I think it was just some semblance of control over something that essentially you don't have control over. So I would have these backup plans thinking, okay, that's what would calm my nervous system when it would be like, you're not safe. And I'd be like, it's okay, I got a backup plan. I'm good. Keep living.

keep focusing on right now. So yeah, all that to say, had I not had this amazing support from the GoFundMe, especially when my first scan showed up and it showed that I had spread, and not only in my liver, but now my lungs, that

changes a lot of things. They don't talk curative so much anymore. They talk longevity. And so, you know, I didn't have two months of clicking my heels before it was back. Some people have years. And so I was really grateful that I had to go find me and I had those backup plans because as soon as this started going down that hill, everybody rallied around me. It was phenomenal.

Gotcha. Yeah.

Michelynn (32:48.49)
And it just, it made it all possible. So by the time January, I had my follow-up scan and things were worse, much worse. I was able to pack my bags within a week. I ran down to Boston, got a second opinion, got some information from them, came back home and then booked my flights for Mexico. And I was there for three weeks.

What were the take homes from Mexico and where are you at now with that? how, like, how are you feeling about having gone, forward, where you at? What happened? What the fuck happened in Mexico? What happens in Mexico stays in Mexico.

when it's in Tijuana. Yeah, yeah, there could have been but yeah, I haven't drank alcohol in like two years now. So just riding this this roller coaster sober. But yeah, I know, I got down to get down to Mexico and they offered it was called the the Immunotherapy Institute is where I decided to go ultimately because I knew someone who went

I'm like, what? Any drinking involved?

Christina (33:50.145)
Uh-huh.

Michelynn (34:04.686)
through a friend and I'd been texting with them and he just explained this kind of miraculous story that he had where, you know, he had like 23 liver mets and with, you know, a colorectal diagnosis and he was basically put on a palliative chemo and jumped on a plane in between chemo infusions and went to Mexico and got this particular treatment and then went back and his first scan after.

He had a 50 % reduction in all the lesions and then the next scan after that they were gone completely. Which doesn't happen with chemo alone. So I was just like, whoa, that's amazing and I started looking into it a little bit more and so that's what I went to do. So basically it's an autologous immunotherapy and what they do is they isolate your white blood cells and just mass produce.

natural killer cells, T cells, dendritic cells, and just basically boost up your immune system to make it an awesome army. And a lot of cancer theory, they're getting into it too much, the problem is that your immune system can't find the cancer, and that's why the tumors develop, because we all have free radical cancer that can develop at times, and then our immune system finds it, destroys it, and so on and so forth.

In Mexico, they focused for three weeks on anti-inflammatory. So just really getting the inflammation out of my body through supplements, through an anti-inflammatory diet, through exercise, mental health support. Anyways, all kinds of cool stuff.

Was it kind of like going to a spa?

Michelynn (36:01.582)
Well, you know what, it's, you know, when you think of regular cancer treatments here, I was at a five-star hotel. They would come and pick you up every day, transport you to this little clinic. You're just hanging out with other cancer patients and their families. The doctors are walking around, chatting with you. Nice. You know, you have access to them, which is completely different than what we're used to. And...

Are

Michelynn (36:29.77)
I would get infused, they would use my port and infuse me with everything from high dose vitamin C, B12, trace minerals, random supplements essentially. I needed iron, I would do all these sorts of stuff. They also tested my body composition, they seen what things I was low in and then would appropriately supplement me with and give me a diet plan for that as well.

Yeah, I was very like whole body, which was cool. And even the mental health part, because I had a massive, my November scan, which totally just, you know.

deflate at me when you're thinking, okay, another scan post-surgery, and then they're like, yeah, there's something in your lungs. And you're just like, what? And then they just go, well, we'll just wait another three months and follow up then. So then you have to go home for three months and wonder what's gonna happen, which is complete torture. And with all the mental health skills in the world, that was one of the hardest three months to go through.

because it's like all your fears are coming true, right? I know what that means. so, and then no surprise, the next scan, it's like a dramatic increase in all the spots. And now there's more spots. And I always think about that because I wonder, what if I had mental health supports? What if I had done certain things between those two scans and how might that look differently? Because if your body's in this massive stress response,

weird that I had a dramatic response. you you wonder how that could have looked differently. So anyhow, back to Mexico, they focused on all of that, the mental health, the physical health, the exercise. I loved it. It just makes sense to me. It's not just the tumor. We're a whole body.

Michelynn (38:33.638)
You know, all of it, everything that they did really made sense. And you know, it's Western, it's holistic meds, but it's also Western. I'm speaking to an oncologist, you know, he's talking about chemo options. Like they do it all, which I thought was really cool. Like everything in one. So yeah, we did all that. And then I had this really cool, it's called hypothermia. And they basically put you in a fever state. They took my blood and they pump it out.

put it through almost like a dialysis machine and they heat up your blood and then they put it back in you. So I'm in the hospital for this and they put a catheter kind of in an artery here and just run it through this machine for about an hour and they heat up my blood. And the purpose is MSS micro-sodium stable tumors are called cold tumors. So what you wanna do is you wanna heat them up to make them weak. And when we're in a fever state,

the cells are weak, the cancer cells are weak, but our immune cells do the best, because when we're in a fever state, that's when they're fighting. That's when they come out, that's when they fight. So they come out and they're strong and they're like, wait a minute, I know what you are. Yeah, exactly. So that's kind of the theory behind it is then they mark it and then now the cancer cells are revealed essentially.

And then the next day I got the infusion with all of the billions of natural killer T cells and all that into me. Wild. the next two days. Yeah. Yeah. So, so when I came back from Mexico, I had a scan and it was too early. They usually say four to nine weeks before you have your first scan. And I had a scan at about two and a half weeks because my oncologist wanted me back on chemo.

And so he wanted a baseline scan and they did a baseline and my lung spots, which were growing 60 % in 12 weeks, dramatically is what my scan report says. We're now all stable. No new growth and everything was stable. And I'm not on chemo. There's no other explanation for this other than what I did down there. Wow. Yeah, so that was pretty cool. And my lung spots were still growing.

Michelynn (40:55.246)
which was a downer, but they were bigger spots. So it could be pseudo progression where it's just kind of like swelling from inflammation from the actual treatment. But more to follow, I had an MRI on Friday, so we'll find more of what's going on there.

Hehe.

Christina (41:13.848)
What they did in Mexico can be helping your immune system ongoing or is there stuff at home you have to, like you were sent home with like essentially homework, like here's your lifestyle now.

Yeah, yeah, I was sent home with obviously the anti-inflammatory diet. The goal is to keep anti-inflammatory because when you're inflamed, your white blood cells are preoccupied. So I think of it like a cluttered house, you know? And if you have inflammation and all these issues throughout your body, then, you know, if there's a fire or there's some sort of emergency and your house is all cluttered, it's gonna be a lot harder to find it. And so the body's kind of the same way. And if you have all this inflammation in your body,

then you're gonna have less cells because they're preoccupied in other places. So you wanna keep your inflammation down, you wanna keep everything calm so that when things do show up, your body's able to find it and it has a good enough army, let's say, to go after it. So that's kind of the theory behind it. So eating anti-inflammatory has been a focus, exercise is really good.

to clear things out and keep yourself strong, eating lots of protein. I supplement vitamin D. They also gave me quite a bit of supplements to come back with. I gotta get better at taking them all. They're quite expensive, so I try to make them last. I don't know. So trying to get used to that a little bit. But yeah, there's medicinal mushrooms and things like that too. And there's some cool research around it. It's not super evidence-based, but it's definitely...

It's not gonna hurt you, so why not? You you just wanna, you wanna come at this from all angles.

Christina (42:53.454)
Were there things about the exercise or the diet that were brand new to you?

I think, like, you know, I came from this mindset where I was, you know, everything, like, I wanted to be really calm. I want my body to be, chill and not in this, stress response. So the exercise I was doing, I don't think was enough cardio. And I'm more like, you know, let's meditate and do some yoga kind of gal. And they were just like, no, no, like,

you want your heart rate to be 165 kind of thing, and you wanna be doing this for 30 minutes a day, and you wanna be strength training. You wanna build your muscle right now. So you need to eat a lot of protein, and you need to build muscle. So that was all new for me, and I think just being now a 44-year-old woman entering into perimenopause quite rapidly now because of chemo, but all that stuff is really good too.

making sure that your cardio is really good and you're eating protein and all of it's just like, know, common sense, healthy stuff. But for cancer, there's some good research on longevity as a result.

Okay, so like what are the things that you love to do that are keeping you chill?

Michelynn (44:19.758)
Obviously music, I haven't been doing that a lot. But I was talking with Jelle the other day and I was like, know, we gotta like get playing some music again. And so, you know, we'll get on that. But definitely creating, painting, drawing. I was like super into cricket. I know it sounds really geeky, but it was like. It became a really satisfying hobby there for a little bit. You just like zone in and I would make these like wicked, you know, t-shirts. Like we all, went to the

Cavendish Music Festival and I just made like Tyler Childers like shirts for everybody and Childers, I always say Childers, Tyler Childers. Anyways, yeah, so stuff like that was definitely helpful and yeah, keep your mind busy and satisfying.

Yeah

Christina (45:08.27)
Are you, you're starting, you're starting chemo again?

I just started two weeks ago, actually Wednesday I have my second round. It was kind of unknown how long this was gonna be. I was trying to negotiate a lower dose, because that's what Mexico was kind of suggesting was a low dose chemo will work really well with the treatment, because one thing you don't want to do is just like hammer your immune system, which essentially is what chemo does. And I found some

some good research, a really interesting meta-analysis from like 2018 or 2019 comparing toxicity of high dose versus low dose and the efficacy was very similar in terms of the output of the results but you know a lot less chemotoxicity, well no chemotoxicity with low dose and then of course you know significant more with a high dose chemo so.

I was trying to kind of negotiate that. It's just not standard of care here. So it's tricky to do when you're advocating for different things that aren't quite standard of care yet, but low dose is supposed to be a little bit better. So he didn't give me the highs I should be. He went down a little bit, which was great. And it's a much more tolerable chemo this time than I was on last time. It's a palliative chemo. Nobody obviously likes saying that on the paper, but that's the reality of it.

once it's passed more than one organ. So he didn't really give me an end date, but I don't know if you know this part, I, so because it's in both lungs, they kind of told me that surgery was off the table. You can't really get a resection of both lungs. So.

Michelynn (46:59.544)
you know, obviously that's a downer to hear, but you're just like, okay, they're tiny little spots and there's different things that they can do. you know, like I had my liver ablated, so maybe we can, we can do something with these little spots. I just need to get on chemo and, and, and kind of hoping just Mexico is just going to take care of it, honestly. Yeah.

We all hope Mexico is going to take care of

Thinker, yeah. Yeah, why not? But again, arrows in my quiver, I watched a webinar and there was this phenomenal thoracic surgeon out of Toronto. His name's Dr. Seipel and he's doing a really cool in vivo lung perfusion trial where you just get chemo into both lungs so it doesn't go systemically throughout your body. just kind of like.

pile it in both lungs and they're measuring it so they just give you enough so there's no toxic effects to your lungs and your lungs can obviously handle a lot more than putting it all through your body.

Hehe.

Michelynn (47:59.444)
So the phase one trial went really well and people did really well with it and there wasn't any recurrence. Whatever was left, they just tried to get them out with wedge resections and kind of SBRT. Anyways, the trial looked amazing. So I got my family doctor to refer me to the surgeon through this organization called CCRAN, they're a patient advocacy group who have been phenomenal supports. So I got myself referred and I actually met him virtually.

last week and I have to send up all your scans and get all your reports, your medical file and everything sent up to them. And so I had this meeting with him and I was just so excited for him to go over my file and maybe get on this trial, which would be phenomenal. And he was kind of like, okay, well, so first of all, you only have three spots, not five, and usually when you meet him,

they go through the three previous scans and they tell people, actually you don't have three, you have six. Because they can see more and they're the lung specialty clinic. I was almost prepared for the wurshers and then he came back and said, no, there's only three. And I'm like, okay, awesome. And he's like, yeah, and I can get rid of all of them with a wet wetsuit section. You don't even need the trial.

What the fuck? you serious? You are so fucking inspiring. This is incredible.

And I was just like crying. Like, are you, what? Like he goes, yeah, you'll be out of the hospital in 24 hours.

Christina (49:39.278)
This is incredible. do we know when this could take place?

Life changing.

Michelynn (49:46.214)
He was basically like, are you back on chemo? And I was like, yeah, well, I was trying to talk to the liver surgeon to see if she could resect me and, you know, cause he kind of want your liver taken care of before the thoracics will do anything. And then the thoracics went the liver and the liver wants the threat. So anyways, but I couldn't get ahold of her. Cause of course the MRI machine was broken here and everything got delayed and she wanted an MRI before she could make any decisions. And then my oncologist went me back on chemo, la la la. Needless to say.

I just restarted chemo, so he was like, okay, well, don't go on it long. Don't go on it long. I'm like, I'll stop it right now if you want me to.

Yeah, like is that up to you? you? I don't know.

not really, but I guess it is up to me essentially, but I have to work with my oncologist here and I'm assuming that he has a plan, but I called him last week and I was like, I got good news. There's a thoracic surgeon who will take care of these spots for me and he's like, what? wow. That's great. Yeah, he said, the liver surgeon here is gonna send you to thoracics as well. It's like, yeah, okay, well.

I I beat you to it. Yeah, yeah.

Christina (50:56.27)
Oh my God, this is incredible. I love, like, I'm really excited that people get to hear this story because it, I mean, on the one hand, I wish people didn't have to do all this work themselves. Yeah, yeah. But it is really inspiring and it does provide a lot of hope and, know, time, you don't know how long.

Absolutely.

Christina (51:21.672)
you know, you don't know, and you know, this goes for any of us, but especially somebody who has a diagnosis that you have. And so he gives hope for more time and, you know, maybe more. Yeah, just.

100%. That was the terminal illness versus chronic disease and just that difference in your head when you're like, you tell yourself I have a terminal illness, doctors are like, you have two years. And then people just go, okay. And they go home and die. They just accept it. And to no fault of their own, but I think your body knows that too.

and your body takes that like, I'm dying kind of mentality. And that's been a conscious switch for me that I'm like, no, I have a chronic disease that I'm gonna manage until I find a cure. And if that doesn't happen, that doesn't happen. But if I don't think like that, it's a lot harder to live with cancer than you're dying from it. And that's the difference. I think mentally you really need to...

think about it that way. So that's been really helpful for me, just planning, thinking about it. you know, there's always hope. There's so many amazing stories. I've been reading this Dr. Bernie Segal book and he talks so much about all these like spontaneous remissions and things that happen that we just can't explain. you know, and the medical system focuses on

quantitative things, like why didn't this dose of medication work? What are the things that we can manipulate and change within this experiment or within this research? But when it's this like, so-and-so came in and their her cancer's gone, wow, we don't know why. And they just go, crazy, spontaneous remission. And then that's it, yeah, not like, hey man, we study?

Michelynn (53:27.616)
Rachel and find out why her cancer just fucking disappeared like why are we interested in that?

It's Pokin' Prud... Rachel. Yeah.

I think with cancer getting an NGS panel is really important. I've also just had that done.

an NGS panel, what is that? Panel, that stand for?

It has to do with precision medicine. So you want to see like what biomarkers are in your tumor and then what corresponding treatments are going to work best for you as a result. you know there's a lot of information on this like precision medicine where you know we can find out specifically my body, my cancer, you know and what treatments may work.

Michelynn (54:15.522)
best for it rather than these blankets. Statistically, know, full Fox works 70 % of the time, so we're gonna give you that one. And then you find out, wait a minute, you know, that one's actually not a good fit for you later. So it's very new and a lot of oncologists aren't like gung-ho for it yet, but it's coming and it's really cool. There's a lot of cool stories. The guy who runs the genomic focus website has an amazing story.

Gotcha.

Michelynn (54:45.294)
2016 he was diagnosed with a really rare bile cancer diagnosis and he was on kind of the regular old chemo and then Keytruda and immunotherapy came up and it was seen that he just decided to try it even though it probably wouldn't work for him but he had a certain biomarker that it seemed like maybe it would. So he did and he's been cancer free ever since. So.

things like that and I'm actually carrying a biomarker that's telling me to try an immunotherapy. So I was emailing with him today. So that's kind of a backup plan too. But there's a lot of things like that that are out there. So getting connected, if you have cancer, get in the cancer groups. You don't need to reinvent the wheel. Get connected with people who are already in it. They're already doing it. Ask your questions. People will guide you. We're all in there. We wanna help. There's a...

Everybody just, we all just want everybody to survive, know? Everybody's working to try to help everybody. It's really shitty club to be a part of with a whole bunch of amazing people. So definitely get connected and just let people help you. Those are, I would say, the biggest things.

Thank you. How can we support you? Like, do you have favorite cookies that are anti-inflammatory or like, is there a... Now, the GoFundMe, I'm going to put a link up to that in the show notes for this. Is it an easy name to remember, the URL for the GoFundMe?

think it's just under my name, honestly, but.

Christina (56:31.63)
Okay, well, I'll post it. I'll post it. But seriously, are there other ways that people don't know about that they can support you and your family?

With cancer in general, when you are of working age and not being able to work, and then let alone traveling, like I'm gonna be traveling to Toronto for surgeries, those types of things obviously just makes life difficult. And I've just been really grateful for it, for that. I certainly didn't come on here today thinking about advertising for my GoFundMe.

that's certainly not expected or a part of this at all. I've benefited quite immensely from people and I'm so grateful that I was able to do what I did and get a second opinion from Boston. I'm meeting up with them. Unfortunately, every meeting with them is about $2,000 to follow up with them after. like I said, you're a...

strategist, you're trying to, okay, if I do this and then do this next and then keep that in my back pocket and you're constantly kind of navigating those things. of course costs do come up, but we're very grateful that we've had what we've been able to do so far covered by the beautiful love and support from this community. yeah, so no, don't have any specific requests at all. I think if you're working with somebody or know somebody with cancer,

and how to support them in general. I think something that's really helpful is just asking like, you know, what's your to-do list as opposed to what can we do for you? I I struggle myself like asking for help. I'm still not quite good at that and I'm trying to get better for my family's sake at asking people, because I know people do wanna help and help with drives and help with things. But I think a group of girlfriends just before I went to Mexico, one of them just

Michelynn (58:37.326)
phrased a little differently and said, what's on your to-do list? And then I was like, oh, I'm going to make some meals because my dad's going to be up here. And I'm trying to make little bags for my youngest every day that she can open while we're gone because it's going to be hard for her. And I have to do this and this. And I made my list. And they just took it and ran. they really.

I love that. What's your to-do list? Put me on there. There's got to be something I can do. You know I like to organize. You do. But your house is really organized.

was really cool.

Michelynn (59:14.669)
I can show you this room right now. wouldn't think so. Tax season.

What?

well, let me at it. I tell ya.

Right?

I have one last ridiculous question, but... I love it. Have you gotten an inordinate amount of casseroles and things that you just don't want to eat? I know people mean well, does that happen? Or you're like, what? We can't eat this. We never eat this.

Michelynn (59:45.742)
We were so lucky when we went to Mexico. I have this amazing group of girlfriends in Halifax and they all got together. then Brad's work friends and some of our friends here locally. Everybody just made food that I think my dad, in three weeks, my dad maybe cooked two meals. It's phenomenal.

This is a thing, so it's kind of like a food train. think that's what they...

Literally, I just cleaned out my freezer because they were like, we're coming, make sure there's room. And I just cleaned out my deep freeze and it was phenomenal. They just fed my family for three weeks.

So I actually kept, because a friend of mine went through a surgery this year, and one of her friends sent around this spreadsheet. It was a food train you could sign up for making meals on specific days. And they sent an email and said, you know, this is what they would prefer, this is what their likes and dislikes are. And it was so, they made it so easy. And then everybody, you know, there was one location people would drop off the food and...

And it was so appreciated. And these were all like yummy, nutritious, you know, stuff like, you know, had treats for dessert and stuff too, but really nutritious stuff. I'd never really seen that before and it was a hit. So I'm glad to hear it's a thing. And I think more people, I'm sure, will appreciate hearing that that's something they can organize for their own family and friends.

Christina (01:01:14.446)
Or ask, like ask somebody to organize it for you if you need that. think it's wonderful. I'm glad to hear that that was a success.

Yeah, it was really cool. was really, it was very thoughtful. It so kind and just like a stress, you know. My dad was here dealing with the winter with my four kids and you know, my oldest is 21, but like you know, he was in it and we had every snowstorm and bad weather you can imagine while we were gone too. So I was just very, very grateful that they had that sort of support and meals and things like that covered. was phenomenal.

That is fun. Okay, so like not cancer related. Like what's something fun that you're looking forward to?

Gosh Not cancer related I'm just like Getting over getting over chemo finishing up chemo. I'm a for cancer. So cancer. Yeah, I know I know it's always I Really? I really really want Jalyn to start doing like open mics and stuff like that again. I just love it just love like little things like that anything to do watching her perform my youngest just

just performed at her dance recital poppy and it was her first little recital and all of us went and all the girls made sure they were off work and everything and we watched her and supported her and those moments are just savoring, you just savor those types of things. I think this summer we're gonna do lots of camping and getting together with friends as much as we can.

Michelynn (01:02:54.102)
So lots to look forward to there. Just the summer months, we got a pool in the backyard and like an above ground kind of thing. But we just, we all hang out and we're out there and it's so nice at night. And I don't know, things like that, camping, fishing. Brad's starting a charter fishing business. you know, I think that's.

That makes sense. So he can smile more.

So he will smile and be happy. So we're hoping that it'll give him more time because he's working two jobs since I've been off work. And I'm hoping that this will give him more time at home. And then when he is working, he's having a good time doing something that he loves. And certainly, if there's anything we've learned this year, that that's it.

What are the chances that you guys are gonna camp, like in Amherst, close to us so that you can come visit?

I think if we just tell them that there's like fish around.

Christina (01:03:57.326)
I don't know anything about fishing, but we have one of the best trout river. I don't know what trout, they run the river, they swim it. Yeah, yeah, there's a trout run, I'm pretty sure. I think it's trout. What are some other important fish? No, it's not bass. I'm pretty sure it's trout. It's like, okay, tell them to look up Cumberland County. That's where we are.

Chout Run.

Michelynn (01:04:17.102)
strike bass.

Christina (01:04:26.574)
There are, I know, fish.

I know he likes duck hunting out there.

We'll figure it out. We'll lie to him about it anyways and we'll just get him out there.

whole family and you guys just come by and then we'll have like a jam. Like fancy cappuccinos, we'll barbecue and then you guys will go back to your... You could stay here and they can all go back to the campsite. I mean, they can camp in our backyard if they want, but... We could. Yeah.

That'd be so fun!

Michelynn (01:04:56.366)
It'll be awesome. It'll one of those, yeah, truck tents.

Regardless, I will come to your pool.

Yeah, anytime. Anytime.

You are amazing and I thank you for your time because time is precious.

And it is, but thank you for having me. I love any platform just to be able to talk about this stuff. And if anybody ever wants to contact me or if they know someone who's diagnosed or, you know, at least like that gives me people are like, I don't want to bother you. You know, you have enough going on. And honestly, like it gives me this this fire, this purpose. know what those first moments are like.

Michelynn (01:05:38.254)
I had people help me through them if I can do that for other people. And then I think of all the support and love and everything that I've been given to navigate this and find out all these things and have the privilege to be able to go to Boston and get this panel done and go to Mexico. And I will give whatever anybody needs information wise and anything about the diet, all of that.

please, please contact me. My Facebook and social media, Instagram are open. It's just my name. You'll be able to find me easily. Reach out. I'll be more than happy to help.

Yay. I'm going to post all those links so that you can get in touch. And yeah, thank you again. You're amazing. And you can come back on here anytime. And I look forward to seeing you in person. Thank Thank you. Yes. Love you. Let's make a plan. Love you too. Thanks for having me.

Christina (01:06:48.554)
I don't wanna say goodbye to you

Christina (01:06:57.24)
Welcome to the Heartbeat Hotline.

Christina (01:07:03.093)
I'm the host of A Chat With Heart podcast, Christina Martin, and I'm so excited you called. Leave me your question, a suggestion for the podcast, or a comment about this episode. Please be aware your message may be used on the podcast and social media. Tell me your name, where you're calling from, and it's also fine if you want to remain anonymous. Thanks for listening. Have a great fucking day.

Hey, thanks for listening to a chat with heart produced by me, Christina Martin, co-produced and engineered by my partner in life and sound, Dale Murray. Dale's not just a wizard with knobs. He's also a killer singer songwriter, session musician, and music producer. Go snoop around his world at dalemurry.ca. The podcast theme song, Talk About It, and I Don't Want To Say Goodbye To You were written by me and recorded by Dale. Want to support what we do? You can snag CDs, vinyl, digital music,

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