James Mullinger: English-Canadian Comedian and Author

Christina chats with the incredibly talented and hard working British-Canadian comedian James Mullinger about following your dreams, work ethic, orchestrating outside-the-box events, carving your own path and so much more. 

James Mullinger, originally one of the UK’s hardest working comedians and Comedy Editor for GQ magazine, moved to New Brunswick (the province I grew up in), Canada in 2014 and has since become a sensation across the country. Known for his sold-out shows, appearances on CBC’s The Debaters, movies, TV shows, and festivals, James has done it all. He was recently named one of the Most Inspiring Immigrants in Atlantic Canada and released a National bestselling memoir, Brit Happens. Mullinger also stars in New Brunswick’s first national sitcom, has raised over $150,000 for Canadian charities, and co-founded and launched his own international magazine with his wife Pamela, The Maritime Edit.

Chapters

• 0:00 Greetings from Christina
• 0:49 Theme Song - Talk About It
• 1:16 Introduction by Christina
• 11:07 Places that are mistaken for other places
• 14:48 Work ethic - No pain no gain!
• 19:33 Measures of success
• 23:00 Some of what we do is boring as fuck
• 28:35 Comedy in Atlantic Canada
• 31:23 When to say yes or no to the gig
• 36:39 Orchestrate your gigs
• 40:59 Starting Edit Magazine
• 47:59 Embracing marketing and delivering the goods
• 50:28 Great press shots and what to wear
• 57:17 Thinking outside the box
• 59:59 The New Brunswick song
• 1:01:34 Greatest hits tour
• 1:05:41 ADHD
• 1:11:51 Carving your own path
• 1:18:55 AI describes James Mullinger
• 1:22:42 Heartbeat Hotline 1(902)-669-4769
• 1:23:15 Podcast Credits
• 1:23:45 Support the Podcast on Patreon

Transcript

S3E15: James Mullinger

Christina: [00:00:03] Welcome to a Chat with Heart. I'm your host, Christina Martin. I'm a singer songwriter. I live on a dirt road with my best friend Dale in rural Nova Scotia, Canada. A chat with heart is just me having chill conversations with people I want to celebrate, and topics that I'm curious about. If you have a question or a comment for this podcast, call my heartbeat hotline 1-902-669-4769. To send this podcast even more love. Visit me online at Patreon.com/ChristinaMartin. I'm so happy you're listening. Our personal stories have great power to heal, influence and inspire. All we have to do is show up for the conversation.

Song 'Talk About It': [00:00:49] If we just talk about it, we could shine a light, we could break a dark day. If we just talk about it, we can cut a way, we can make a brighter day.

Christina: [00:01:16] Uh, I fucked up again. Poor Dale uh, our engineer, my husband, my best friend. So, uh, when I say I fucked up, um, I just I want you to know that the fact that during this episode, later on, my microphone doesn't sound as good as it sounds like right now. This is not Dale's fault. Uh, it's my fault. I spent so much time testing the audio with Dale, and we have. We have just in the best, uh, state. Finally. And I spent all this time preparing for this episode, making sure I had my checklist, my audio checklist. And despite all that, I. Whatever happened, I neglected even in my my tech check with my wonderful guest who did a great job and his audio sounds great. Um, I had the wrong mic selected. So even though I was speaking into this really great mic that I use, um, thinking it was connected, it was not. And, uh, you guys probably don't care. And I told that to Dale. Most of my listeners won't care like I as a it sounds fine, but I know and Dale knows, and I broke Dale's heart a little bit because, again, it's like we had talked about this numerous times. I made this mistake a couple of episodes ago, and then I do it again. I'm going to get over it. I'm over it now. I'm over it. But I just wanted to let you know we do have some audio fiends in the, uh, in the in the some, some wonderful little heartbeat listeners who, um, you know, care about that stuff.

Christina: [00:03:09] I'm not going to name any names. Jason MacIsaac. Um, but, uh, you know, most of you won't will not give two shits, and you're just having a good time here. And some of you may use this podcast as a way to put you to sleep at night. And I'm happy I can bring some peace and calm. And others are listening on their on their drive to or fro work. Um, I like to listen to podcasts on my drive to the big city of Halifax, Nova Scotia from Cumberland County. That's when I get my phone calls, um, as my friends know, in and I'm catch up on podcast listening. So wherever you're listening from, um, in the world, I thank you for being my little heartbeat listener. And don't forget, um, I don't have my phone with me, but there is a heartbeat hotline. You can call and leave a message and ask a question, any question, or leave a comment. You can rate and review this podcast. Those are fun. I should check those ratings out and read them in a future season. Um, you can also email me Christina Martin music at gmail.com if you have a question or a comment, and it may make its way into a future episode. Um, I just want to say thanks. Thanks for listening. And, uh, listen, a little update, um, before we get to our incredible guest today. Uh, I feel really good, I feel strong, um, I've been carving out time for myself, but mostly all of my energy, uh, apart from just, you know, looking after my health and stuff and has been set on this, uh, September 6th event in Halifax at Alderney Landing Theatre and the upcoming shows in New Brunswick, in Fredericton, Saint John and Moncton.

Christina: [00:05:06] Those are in October with band and string quartet. Um, I've been I've been planning so much for these shows, like for such a long time, literally years. But all the most of the details have been happening in the last 6 to 8 months. That so much is behind me of that work, and I'm now and I like to do this. I like to get to the point where the shows are happening. I can enjoy the two weeks, the final rehearsals, the production and really focus on just singing and being with the musicians and creating this, this, you know, experience for everybody. Um, so I think this episode will air before September 6th, but know that that's I'm doing great. I feel strong, rested. And we're ready. We're ready and I can't wait. We're filming the September 6th event, recording it. So if you're following me on my Patreon as a free or a paid member, um, that's where you're going to get updates. That's where my my free newsletter is as well. Um, you'll you'll get some, uh, behind the scenes stuff. There you can. You'll be the first if you're a paid member to see the results of this recorded, filmed event.

Christina: [00:06:25] I'm so pumped about. Um, and one more thing I do have to say, Dale and I just decided this will be this episode, the season three finale of a Chat with Heart podcast. I'm going to pause production so I can carve out time to write more songs and just experiment and have fun with it, because I have not had time to do that for, well, since the album came out. I'm going to make some more plans for performing, dreaming and scheming and it's all by design. I'm so excited, uh, to be here at this point where I can do all of this now, another transition shift. What's to come? I don't know, I mean, I have some ideas, but I'm really excited. Okay, my guest today could not have asked for a better season three finale. He is a world class get. As we like to say in the entertainment world. I'm a huge fan. Huge fan. James Mullinger originally one of the UK's hardest working comedians and comedy editor for GQ magazine. That's right. Moved to New Brunswick province. I grew up in um in 2014 14 and has since become a sensation across our country. He's known for his sold out shows, appearances on CBC's The Debaters, movies, TV shows and festivals. James has literally done it all. He was recently named one of the most inspiring immigrants in Atlantic Canada and released a national best selling memoir called Brit Happens. Folks, if you haven't read the book, it's it's really wonderful.

Christina: [00:08:17] And I really loved getting to know James more by reading this book. Mullinger also stars in New Brunswick's first national sitcom, and he's raised over $150,000 for Canadian charities. He's co-founded and launched his own international magazine with his wife, Pamela. It's called The Maritime Edit. I am a recent subscriber to the print magazine. I'm so excited. And mom, your your, um, subscription is on the way, too. I don't even know if my mom listens to this, to be honest. Um, but, yeah, she'll be excited when she gets the magazine. So one more thing about James's book, because it's it's no easy feat. And I just want to mention it topped the Amazon comedy book charts. It was the Montreal Times Book of the year, and it won the Best Nonfiction Book award at the New Brunswick Book Awards. Did I also mention national bestseller? Oh, it's just so much. There's so much more. Check out his website Jamesmullinger.com. Wait, let me confirm that that's actually it. Before I, uh, before I lead you astray. Yeah. That's it. It's JamesMullinger.Com check that website out for all things James Mullinger. We have a great chat. We chat about following your dreams, even though, you know what? Uh, sorry to spoil it, but it's not going to be easy. And what about the benchmark for success? Why is it why is it ridiculously high sometimes. And and we talk about how, you know, it's important to set your own bar for success.

Christina: [00:09:57] What what does that look like? Maybe that bar is just like, it's just a little. It feels like a little out of reach, but really within reach, you know what I mean? And you keep kind of at it's you keep upping it every time you reach that bar. But it doesn't need to be like an outer space. Um, we chat with heart about so much more. Love is in the details and so is the devil. Some people say, God, uh, but this all just points to a celebration of discipline. And that I believe my guest today has, uh, you have to to become a success. And whatever that bar is for you. I am still pinching myself for getting to sit down and chat with James. And I'm kicking myself for not having my fucking microphone set up correctly. But anyway, thank you Dale Murray, um, for making this episode sound the best it can be. And all the episodes of season one, two, and three of a chat with Hart podcast. Enjoy!

Christina: [00:11:07] This is fucking awesome. Okay, so quick story about we were on a cruise years ago. We're flipping through the cruise ship. You know, destinations to, you know, give you options for booking in the future. And um, so they have Atlantic Canada options to go to, you know, Quebec City and, uh, Halifax and wherever the fuck else those cruises go. And then they have Sydney, Cape Breton and I shit you not. There's a picture of the Sydney, Australia Opera House.

James: [00:11:38] Oh my God.

Christina: [00:11:41] I thought, wow, some folks are going to be super fucking disappointed.

James: [00:11:46] Yes, I mean, that's insane because I have, you know, I have that joke about the Saint John Saint John thing, and I just discovered this, that Sydney. I mean, I'm sure it's not a full time desk, but in the joke, there's a full time desk at Sydney Nova Scotia airport to greet those people who have just basically had their entire retirement ruined, spent their whole life saving up for this, this dream holiday. They come out and they're like, Where's Bondi Beach? And they're like, we've got a fucking fiddle over there. And, um, and I love all this is my favorite one, actually, is when a couple from Geneva read that story about a couple. Oh, well, it was when a cruise ship lost a few Christmases back, was diverted, and it couldn't get to the Bahamas. So instead it got stuck in Saint John for Christmas. And as mortifying as that is for all of those people, the funniest one was this couple from Saint John, who had got up at two in the morning driven to Boston for their big retirement. This is the trip of a lifetime. They get on the boat at Boston. As they fall asleep. They say, you know, we're going to wake up in Paradise. And then suddenly, you know, they wake up in the morning and open the curtains and then take a big sniff and it's like, what's that smell? The fucking.

Christina: [00:13:01] Brewery.

James: [00:13:03] I know. Oh, they're fucking pulp mill. Yeah.

Christina: [00:13:06] Oh that too. Yeah, yeah.

James: [00:13:09] And um. Yeah, that was uh. Anyway, classic. But it's, um. I would do anything for a copy of that brochure.

Christina: [00:13:15] Oh, my God. Yeah, I should have. I should have just snagged it and taken it out.

James: [00:13:21] But. Well. Well, you saw that. Um. Pierre, I can't even pronounce his surname, but the conservatively or the conservatively? The Pierre Poilievre. You see that? They released a video earlier this week celebrating Canada, and someone has done a check on the stock footage. And basically all the footage is like Russia. Um. Amsterdam is basically hardly any. They've obviously just put together such a shitty hatchet job of a of a promo. So it's like celebrating true Canada, real Canadians. And like the picture of the of the sheepherder is in Albania and the picture of the plains is in Russia. I mean, it couldn't be more of a I know it's, uh.

Christina: [00:14:03] That's I mean, this is this just look, this is perfect segue into wait before before that, I got to officially welcome you to the chat.

James: [00:14:13] When do we start? We haven't.

Christina: [00:14:15] Started.

James: [00:14:16] Oh, this is it.

Christina: [00:14:17] Oh, we're in it. Yeah, yeah. Oh, we're in it. Oh, I didn't realize how it goes. Oh, I see this.

James: [00:14:21] Oh, I thought we had a start. No, this isn't it. Is it?

Christina: [00:14:24] Is this your first, uh, you know, chill podcast chat, or are they all.

James: [00:14:29] I'm down with the chat. I would have started with more guns a blazing. I was saving the gold. No. For the. Okay.

Christina: [00:14:35] No, no, no. We were. Listen. Well, so far, so far. Like I'm on the edge of my seat, so. Okay, okay. Good, good. I do want to officially welcome you to a Chat with Heart podcast. Like, this is fucking. You're a get, you know.

James: [00:14:48] Well, no, not at all. I'm not at all. It's genuinely an honor to do it. And you know that I'm a, you know, huge fan of your work. You as a person, a huge fan of everything you and Dale do together. Um, I mean, I guess the thing that I love so much about what both of you do is I don't I love, uh, the journey that's taken you from New Brunswick around the world, back to the Maritimes. I love I'm a fan of the work. I'm a fan of the music. Um, but I'm also a huge fan of of the work ethic and knowing how insanely hard it is to do what we do, where we do it. I mean, it's hard in Canada anyway, but then when we are also basing ourselves in a place where it's, you know, you can love, you know, and it's not disparaging to the region to say that it is hard to do what we do here and that it's hard to get things done. And it's testament to how much we love it that we are willing to, to do, to to be here because we love it. But it's a hell of a lot harder. And I think that's something that isn't always recognized.

Christina: [00:15:46] Now, on that note, because I had actually wanted to ask you about this. So, you know, people say like, uh, um, I wrote it down because I can't remember anything. Um, there's a saying, you do what you love for work and you'll never work a day in your life. Well, I would like to change the saying to do what you love for work. And you work harder than you've ever thought possible. Endless hours. At times you'll go broke. But you do stand the chance of gaining more joy. And a rich and full life with far fewer regrets on your deathbed. Now, is that too long a saying to switch that to because.

James: [00:16:22] Because I mean, it does. It does. It's better to have all of the detail in the phrase rather than needing 15 asterisks or caveats to because and it's funny that original quote about I believe it was wrongly attributed for many years to Bob Dylan. Everyone said Bob Dylan said that. But then it turned out, apparently, that he didn't. Well, well, a, I want you to send me that and I will. I would like to display it above my desk quoted to you because it's a very it's an interesting thing that we have chosen to this thing where we follow our dreams and have been, you know, obviously, you know, lucky and blessed enough that, you know, have been able to continue to do it because lots of, you know, people don't. And I think this is the one thing that always seems like the win, which is that, you know, uh, of the, the many, many, many children who want to become an artist of any discipline, uh, probably I don't know what the stat is, but, you know, 0.001% probably end up doing it in their 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s. And, you know, and so the fact that we are still doing what we love and doing it, you know, and some days we feel very successful. Other days we feel crushingly unsuccessful, but, um, but ultimately, um, it's that thing where you look at yourself. I guess it's that thing where they talk about, you know, the top 1% of wealth, say, and how there's such a vast within that 1%. There's a huge amount of disparity. And and those people all feel different. And I guess it's that thing where if you're working as a performing artist of any discipline and, and surviving and indeed getting by, you know, putting food on the table with that, then you're in the same top 1% of, uh, you know, making it in that field as Taylor Swift or Jerry Seinfeld in that, um, there's such a tiny fraction of people that get to do this, and it never stops being a pleasure and a privilege. Yeah.

Christina: [00:18:16] That's true. Uh, I do wish I do wish I would have accepted earlier on. I've accepted it now, um, that that in this chosen life, you know, it's not going to be the end of the pain. It's not going to be the end of a lot of things. You might, you know, be on a healing journey your entire life. And maybe, if you're lucky, your work can help you in that. I know it's certainly helped me, and it sounds like, you know, from seeing your work, reading your book, listening to your podcast, that it's doing some of that for you as well, that it's just helping you evolve into more the best of you, of you is what I think. Um, but I do wish that there would have been like a class in school that would have been like, if you want to be successful, there's a really good chance that you have to accept, you know, it's not going to be easy. It's, um. It's. Yeah. Like everything you said to the highs, the lows. And, um, the sooner you accept that in your life for everything, right? Um.

James: [00:19:25] Totally.

Christina: [00:19:25] The more you'll, I think just. To let you will. You have left less suffering through the pain.

James: [00:19:33] Yeah, totally. Yeah. And I think the other thing is, is like, you know, why aren't these things taught in school? Like. Like I remember at school, I mean, again, hardly any, you know, performing arts or creative, uh, anything creative was taught. Or if it was taught at my school, it certainly wasn't discussed in careers guidance as, as a, as an option. And yet what I find fascinating now, and I'm always saying this to friends in England who some of whom are from here, who live in England and, um, perform for a living, and they kind of like, I could I could never imagine coming back to New Brunswick. And I'm like, yeah, but if you did, I feel like you would have way more work than you have back in England. And I think it's because the thing that isn't taught is like, for example, in drama, I suspect, and I don't know, again, as a kid, I wasn't really I wasn't involved in anything like that. And I actually probably even if there was more, I wouldn't have been. And I was, you know, very, as we discussed before, very shy and nervous as a kid. So it wouldn't have been involved in drama. But the discussion, for example, with drama, music is always like, you know, it's either being like a Hollywood star or being an a, a Grammy Award winning artist, or there's nothing and there's never talk about like all of the multi, many, many layers underneath that, that of which people can live a very fulfilling, happy life.

James: [00:20:50] Um, you know, earning, you know, a decent wage that would be the same as if they worked, you know, a standard job, whether it be for for Irving or for the government or whatever else. Um, and maybe not be a household name, but have that. And it's bizarre that that I believe to this day still isn't taught whereby um, and it's I guess it's that funny thing. Also, like when we're starting out and before our families fully understand and some family members still don't, but when we're starting out, they're kind of like, so when are you going to be on, you know, when are you going to be on just for laughs, or when are you going to be in a Sandler movie, or when are you going to be in this? And it's like, no, you don't get you don't get it. That's not the end game. In the same way, why aren't you saying to to Cousin Dave, who might be in, I don't know, hedge funding? Why doesn't he own Merrill Lynch yet? Um, you know, I don't know if Merrill Lynch is still a thing. I don't even know if he's connected with hedge funds, but, you know, like they're not saying to those people, why aren't you running Wall Street yet? So why is it that their benchmark for are you doing okay as a comedian? Is are you Adam Sandler yet? Why isn't it? Well, the children look fed and the roof is still over there, over the house.

James: [00:21:56] And there is and and there is a house, you know, and all those things. Yeah. So it's a funny thing that there's this, um, this ridiculous pressure put on performing artists and any artist a that it's like, well, you know, uh, that everyone thinks that, like, I guess. Yeah, it's that thing where everyone thinks that, oh, success means success in that field means this. But then you know, why not in school? Teach people. Okay, if you want to make a living as a comedian, here's how you can build it up in a small town. And and I, you know, believe that there's, you know, as I think I've said to you before, like it's basically moving here, leaving London and moving here, for me, it was the very same discipline as like being a plumber, where it's like, if you go to a small town as a plumber, you go out, you do a few jobs. You if people like it, they tell people they spread the word same, same discipline. And yes, that's not going to suit the kind of performer that wants to sit on their backside waiting for the agent to ring with bookings and the agent to say, right, we've got this, this and this. That's not going to suit that person. But if someone would get up and go or wants to do it the organic, grassroots way, then it can work.

Christina: [00:23:00] I love the organic, grassroots way. Yeah. Um, the, the thing I've noticed I've been struggling with, especially since the, the pandemic, is when people will ask me, you know, when are you going on tour or are you going back to your, you know, they're referencing the things that we used to do a lot because I was, you know, I was just to me, I thought that if I had to be successful, I had to be doing all of these things. I had to go to all these places, which I mean, was a part of it for sure. But and now that I'm kind of changing my model of how I, you know, in order to be a little bit happier and, and healthier, um, but I'm just finding a different way that I think suits me better in what I do. And so but I do still struggle with this. I feel, uh, I feel like a loser, but like, I'm. I'm not successful because I'm not X, Y, and Z anymore, but yet I'm, I'm or like when I say I'm busy, I don't want to fucking bombard people with all the things I have to do or the creative things I'm planning the project, managing super boring. It's boring as fuck, but I got to do it. And I do actually enjoy some of that stuff. But like people don't get that, so it just sounds like you're a fucking loser.

James: [00:24:28] Yes. Yeah. I mean, I mean, I know exactly what you're saying, and it's that thing where, I mean, a I mean, yeah, and it's that thing where people need to get better at asking. I mean, because the worst question for everyone is, you know, what's next? Yes. And, and and again, and you see this, you know that.

Christina: [00:24:41] Off my list.

James: [00:24:42] Yeah. Yeah. Well, no, but, you know, it's that thing. Where. Well, no, I mean, and to be fair, I do ask it in interview contexts because it is relevant and everyone has does everyone has an answer prepared. It's the it's the what's next from every single family member. Every single. But then you see this from everyone where it's like I saw Simone Biles, you know, comes off after doing like the 50th, creating the 50th move that she's created in her career under the age of 30, greatest ever gymnast of all time. And someone says, what's next? And she's like, Holy fucking shit. Give me a give me five minutes. Like, yeah.

Christina: [00:25:13] I'm going to go to the spa.

James: [00:25:14] Yeah, yeah. Like maybe take a break Maybe. You know, we can't talk about what I just did. I just broke, like, a gazillion world records and, um. Yeah. And part of it is, of course, people, you know, and I think people aren't. It's a weird one because. Because those questions annoy us. Um, but but partly it's because people don't understand our industry and they're trying to be polite and we're trying to not feel. And I agree with you. One of the things I used to do a lot of was basically saying yes to every single gig, because what sounded impressive was I'm on the road. And I basically really relished that thing of like people saying, so you know, how, how's it going? How's and especially when people ask in a patronizing way like, well, how's how's the comedy going? How's the music going? You know, we've all had that from from family members, but also from all kinds of people. And so you always want to have that answer, which is somewhat pathetic. But it's, you know, we are we are needy people. That's a given. Um, and you want to be you know, I want to be able to say, I just got back from Toronto. I was doing the debate, but then equally, their response is probably going to annoy me because it's going to be.

James: [00:26:17] Oh, really? Oh. Well done. Yeah. And then that's going to probably annoy me. So there's almost not a win. But to your point. Yeah, I would uh I guess, you know, it's one of those things, but often, you know, um, don't like talking about, you know, when you do a creative thing especially, it's like people don't want to talk about, um, the money side, which is, of course, an important fact because we have to live off it the same way any other job. The same way when when someone says they got a pay rise at Irving, people know what they got a promotion at Irving. We know that that equates to a pay rise. Um, and yet with performing, it's almost like this kind of. But but to your point, I used to prefer to say yes to everything that involved being on the road, because being on the road sounded impressive. So it's like, well, yeah, in the last week I've been in Winnipeg, I've been in, I've been in Saskatoon, I've been in Dubai, blah, blah, blah. Even if doing all of those gigs in all of those different places basically meant losing money to me. I would do them partly because obviously we have to get our names out there and those things lead to things.

James: [00:27:17] But but to your point about, you know, but it was also say this thing that sounded amazing, but actually, uh, conversely, was a complete, you know, um, disaster financially, whereas when now that the real answer is and like you, I've kind of, you know, flipped what I do and it's very much, you know, and for numerous reasons. And again, like, you know, I mean, just simply surviving, um, my priority, one of the things that I'm very aware of, for instance, is, is that I don't book many club gigs around the country, which the offers are always there, but like to go to Calgary and do yuk yuk's club gigs, you know, pays peanuts and really with expenses. You know, at most I might be going away for the weekend and coming back with 200 bucks. Exhausted, tired, you know, um, the the club gigs are fun and they're a great way to get your name out. But generally, I'm kind of keeping my diary clear of bad stuff like that to make way for the fact that a corporate might come in. And that's the thing that's and corporates are the main things that obviously pay the bills. They're the things that um, that in weirdly, in Atlantic Canada seem to be more prevalent, which is one of the ways we do benefit, which is, you know, when I hear about in in Toronto, the corporate fees just keep dropping and dropping because there's hundreds of performers willing to do it for less.

James: [00:28:35] Whereas in Atlantic Canada, if you want a professional, you know, a professional, well-known, internationally well-known musician or professional, well-known, internationally known comedian, there's a handful of us. And and thanks to people like our mutual friend Steph Purcell, those prices are kept at a reasonable, um, and should I say, you know, high level, especially compared to elsewhere in the country. But, um, so yeah, but that's such a boring answer when someone says to how things are going, you know, how are things going? And I go, I've just been to Saskatoon, Winnipeg shows in Calgary. They're all weekend done, five shows, two nights, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then and that sounds amazing, but what that actually means is I'm skin. Um, but but then the honest answer is. Which is? Well, I've been doing shows for for for bankers and insurance salespeople and, and the Construction Association of Nova Scotia and. No, I kept my diary clear for next year because I want to get more of those corporate gigs. It's a really boring answer that no one wants to hear.

Christina: [00:29:30] I start to glaze over and you start to see the eyes wander, to see where can they exactly?

James: [00:29:37] Yeah, suddenly it's not. It's not the fun thing. So yeah, I get what you're saying. Where I've, I've reframed everything I do. Well, it's that thing of trying to balance it and it's like that. I think it's the George Clooney thing when he talks about one for me, one for them, and it's that thing where for us it's like, you know, uh, one for us, one for the bank balance. And, um, you know, um, also the age of my kids are ten and 13, like a lot of a few weeks ago, I had I was in Halifax for a week. There was, um, the trailer park boys have this, uh, streaming network called Swearnet, which they founded to be able to put their own content out. Sell it. And I don't believe this is what went down, but basically they bought the rights. The trailer park boys back from Mike Clattenburg, and then their plan was to put it all out on Swearnet. But then Netflix offered them a huge amount of money to put it out on Netflix. So suddenly they got this streaming network and they need content for it. So in addition to creating new Trailer Park Boys content for it, they also do a brilliant job of supporting the Nova Scotia film and TV industry by, um, producing shows. Anyway. I was asked to be in a sitcom about kind of a very filthy, um, sitcom about open mic comedians, and I played like an evil, villainous British comedian that comes over and tries to, you know, take everyone's jobs and blah, blah, blah.

James: [00:30:52] Um, but this is one of those things that comes up where it's like, uh, they approached me, but I'm like, okay, I know the fees are going to. I know it's not going to be paying much. Um, I know it's going to be a basically. So it's that thing we're working out with Pam, my wife. Like, what is, you know. Can I do this? I'd like to do it. It will be fun. I don't do any other fun things. I don't go on boys trips. I don't go out partying. I don't like, like, you know, I, uh, I work and I'm home.

Christina: [00:31:21] No strippers. Not for you.

James: [00:31:23] No. I mean, actually, when I was young, no strippers. Uh, yeah. I mean, in the good old days, back in the old days. But nowadays, like like like like nothing like I never. I don't go out. I mean, don't get me wrong. I party at home with Pam and we and we, you know, get plough through the wine hardcore. But, um, but yes, I mean, but but I don't, I don't go off and do so, so I guess when a job comes up, which is, you know, maybe might not be paying much, but it's going to be a fun thing.

James: [00:31:45] It's that thing where I go back to them and go, look, I would love to do this, but I can't be there for three weeks. So if you can fit all my scenes into six days, uh, you know, pay me the standard actor day rate then then I'm there and, um, but it's again balancing out, uh, those things. And really, that's so really, I guess what I'm getting at is that those gigs that don't pay much but also sound great. It's like, I mean, of all the things that I've done in the last two months, the number one thing that if anyone says what you've been up to, I'll probably mention the fact that I did a was in a sitcom for the Trailer Park Boys streaming network, even though it was the thing that paid the least by a long shot. But it's the thing that it was the most fun. It's the thing that sounds the best. And, um, and it's the thing I'm most excited about coming out. So for me, that's, that's my equivalent of, of these of, you know, people who go off on girls weekends or lads weekends. Those are my, uh, those are my fun things. Yeah, I completely agree.

Christina: [00:32:38] So sometimes to summarize for my little heartbeat listeners, sometimes you got to do things for the money, uh, when the money's good. Only when the money's good. Sometimes you do things just for the love of of doing it and it it. But it checks a box or multiple boxes for you and that it's fun. It's creative. You're you're connecting with, you know, people. And it it's in line with your values, your goals, and kind of what you're on, on your path, you know? That's it. And then sometimes, well, this is I mean, sometimes you just have you just do things and you learn from that and you go, okay, I know what questions to ask next time. Like you said, you you this is the other thing that I think is really important. You can ask for what you need. You can let people know, this is what I started doing this years ago. This is what I would my my typical fee would be for this particular thing. Now, if that's horrendous for you or whatever, let's talk. You know, let's maybe we do a shorter set. Maybe it's just me and not a full band or duo and you know, like there's you can ask, you can say, this is what I need.

James: [00:33:55] Totally. Yeah.

Christina: [00:33:56] That's it.

James: [00:33:57] And it's interesting. Yeah. We talked about this before, that interesting thing about how, um, yeah. You learn from every every bad gig and how essentially, like, my rider basically reads like a list of of the disastrous gigs I've had, like, because the list of demands are obviously not, you know, it's not champagne, it's not cocaine, it's not M&Ms with the bad ones taken out. It's literally things like, um, seats facing stage, microphone that works, a sound system that is audible for all um, and, and and it's and when people look at it when you, when you show that to a professional, they kind of go, you know well obviously and I go, yeah, but trust me, this list exists because and that's the that's the weirdest. I guess that's one of the most interesting things about doing what we do in Atlantic Canada or indeed, you know, in Canada per se, is that 80% probably well outside of theater work, like in private gigs or corporate gigs, 70% of the time you're working with people who've never worked with a performer before. So you're in addition to having to worry about your own show and what you're going to do, you've also got to worry. You're also basically training someone in what is required. So I mean I've had and interestingly, often it can be the very high paid corporates that don't listen to this and they're willing to pay the fee, but then they try and scrimp on the sound. And I remember doing this numerous times, and invariably I get there and I test the mic. And now, of course, it's like I want to get there as early as possible to to check the mic. I mean, you kind of try and plan everything.

James: [00:35:27] Now, can I speak to the tech person weeks in advance? But the amount of times I turn up and I'm speaking to the mic and it's like it's poppy or it's like it's like a karaoke mic from Costco that's been picked up for 50 bucks, and the speaker is not going to the bank. And, um, and the and the person who had a dozen meetings with, uh, at the company who's promised you everything you need. And we're going to get the best on this. And yes, don't worry, we can meet you on the stand. And they're standing there shrugging their shoulders, going, oh, well, you know, and then and then whenever I hear this, I hate this when they say, well, I've seen you before, you know, you're a pro, you can handle it. And it's like, I can handle anything when this shit is working. Like, like a really great mechanic can fix any car with some tools, but, like, uh. So you might have seen me in a theater deal with a heckler. Uh, but that was with a working microphone and a light on the stage. We're we're we are standing inside a hotel conference room, and 300 people are arriving in three hours. And no one beyond the first three rows are going to be able to hear me. So they're all going to be talking. So no, I can't handle that, that that is. And so that's that's the kind of that's the constant of I mean, again, for anyone listening, I mean, it sounds like we're talking all the negatives, but mainly because, um, I don't know, it's boring if we just started talking about all the positives, but, um, it is great.

Christina: [00:36:37] When it's good, when it's.

James: [00:36:39] Awesome. And, and of course, there's nothing more satisfying than when a disaster goes well, but but on positive things I want to speak because we have we have so many things in common. But in terms of our shows this year, we have something in common, which is that we're both, uh, me just once, but you many nights spending time on stage with a symphony orchestra. So I'd love to hear about how that concept came together for you for the tour and how it's.

Christina: [00:37:06] Oh my God, I love it. Are we doing your podcast now? This is great. No, I'm sending this to you.

James: [00:37:12] Okay.

Christina: [00:37:13] Well, I want to hear about I do want to hear about that on your end because okay, so I have a dream that is not yet realized, which is to play with the symphony orchestra. And, um, but this fall, I as part of the baby steps for me, um, you know, there's a lot involved in getting to that point, as you know, which you can share. But years ago, I talked to my friend Megan Smith because she had done, you know, when you don't know how to do something, you look to people who have done the thing and you ask them, how did you do it? Like and she was so great to talk me through and give me some tips. And she said, the number one thing, Christina, that would help is get the charts and get the charts for the songs, because those costs a lot of money and a lot of artists don't have those. And the symphony then has to arrange that, and it's right. So, you know, the.

James: [00:38:05] is that sheet music?

Christina: [00:38:07] Yes. Sheet music.

Christina: [00:38:08] Because most symphony players, they're not, you know, playing by ear or heart. They're they're reading the charts. They. Yes.

James: [00:38:15] That's right. And that's what we had to do. Yeah. It was basically get the but yes. And I correct myself. So when I say similar I guess is it, is it a string quartet you have with you.

Christina: [00:38:25] It's Elm City String Quartet in New Brunswick and in Halifax with um will be playing with another quartet. But yeah, this will be my first time ever performing with an ensemble of strings and with the actual charts that, um. Amazing. Yeah. And but tell me, tell me about your experience. Because you you played with an actual symphony orchestra, which is my dream, so. Oh, well.

James: [00:38:51] I mean, I mean, yeah, and I, and I must admit, I did think you had an, I mean, I mean, you clearly would nail it. I mean, I was actually way off with my my timing, as you'd expect. But, but but I will just say this again, I would like to tell people about your you perform with the Elm City String Quartet. And I can do this because our printer just dropped off the first copy of the new issue of Edit, which the pages have not been bound. This is so we can check the pages. Oh my God, it's so exciting. I know no one can see this, but this is the I'm going to read this. Christina Martin, uh, is one of the most consistently exciting singer songwriters working in Canada today. Her ECMA nominated album, Storm, is a bona fide instant classic that hasn't left the Edit record decks in months. Her performance features lush string arrangements and reaches new musical heights for this. Acclaimed originally from New Brunswick musician. But it is during her pounding, titanic and tender live shows. When she really electrifies, Martin is an accomplished. Sorry. Martin is accompanied by her five piece band and New Brunswick's renowned Elm City String Quartet for this concert. You don't want to miss. And I should point out, because Christina will be too modest to mention it. Listeners, she will be in New Brunswick from the 4th to the 6th of October anyway, and this only arrived like ten minutes before we started talking.

Christina: [00:40:05] So I cannot believe. I mean, one of the things which we'll get to because I have an I have a wonderfully fun outro when we do say goodbye, which I know I'm going to have a hard time doing. Um, uh, but the you are so generous. So I emailed you because I was like, if anybody knows, you know, like promoting yourself is is, um, it's it is tough these days and I'm going gorilla style for a lot of it in Canada. Um, and the state of our journalism. Because I'm assuming because organizations are, are, you know, basically closing and then not able to pay proper journalists. Um, so the state of getting proper reviews and articles and whatnot, And it's impossible. It's really hard. And you so generously offered to do that. And I'm so tickled pink. 

James: [00:40:59] I mean, I mean, we exist solely to do that, which is celebrate things we love. And we started the magazine. Obviously, you know, there was a hope that it would be, you know, a sensible business move, but essentially it was born out of, as all, you know, great creative. I'm not saying it's great, but yeah, it's all, you know, successful creative ventures should be. It was born out of a love of wanting, wanting this magazine to exist. You know, we can understand why there wasn't a magazine that accurately reflected life in Atlantic Canada. So we thought it was. We had a policy when we moved here, which was we weren't going to come here and be those wankers that move from away and complain about, why haven't you got this? Why haven't you got that? We just said, well, if we if there's if there's something we miss, then we will bring it here. So. And I believe in that thing. If there's something, you know, if something if there's something you want to exist that doesn't exist, then create it. Like don't sit around complaining. And so anyway, it wasn't damaged at all. Well, as you know, I'm genuinely a fan of your work. And, um, and so, um, artists are often very shy about reaching out, um, which is a funny thing because it like, it can be sometimes. Uh, not. I mean, there's so much going on all the time that I could, I could do I could do an 80 page magazine every week. But it's interesting how often someone might get in touch the day of a show.

James: [00:42:19] And it's like, well, if you told me three months ago, we could have put it in and, um, uh, yeah. And so that's another thing. Again, I know we're on about ten different tangents right now, but, um, but, but but yeah, artists promoting themselves is a very funny. I mean, one thing that I will say to anyone listening, I mean, it might sound like stating the obvious, but I know there's very few media outlets left, but there are still some. And the number one thing, the mistake that people have made, and I've seen this in 24 years of working in magazines like investing in Decent photography and indeed, I mean basically everything. Everything and everything you do is just absolutely spot on. You've got all the information, you've got press kits, you've got all that stuff there. But I would say 24 years ago when I started at GQ, I would be asked to research, um, best hotel, you know, a feature would come in and be best hotels in the Maldives, say. And I would be I was on the picture desk when I started out, so I'd be tasked with getting pictures of all these hotels. Um, what? When the pictures came in, some were transparencies, like slides, some were prints that had to be scanned, some were digital, and then some wouldn't send them, or some would send shitty pictures or some would send low resolution pictures. Anyway, long story short, what could have been the journalists pick of the best hotel in the Maldives or whatever it was? They said Mauritius. Um, if we didn't get any good pictures of it, that was just gone.

James: [00:43:37] And the one basically whoever had the best picture got the fourth. Yeah. Got that. Yeah. And similarly, I mean, I have I'm surrounded by newspaper clippings of myself. Not sound. Not sound like an egomaniac, a capo. But basically, when I was starting out, the only way that I would get. I mean, I'll use an example. I mean, this is this was a local magazine in south London where I was doing a show the same week as some was absolutely, completely unknown at the time, just started touring tons of other far bigger and properly successful comedians were performing in that same place. I could see inside their pictures were like postage stamp sized because they'd obviously the magazine had been sent a low resolution. Yeah, crappy picture. And just because they had a good quality picture. So I mean, it works with everything. I mean, and to this day in the magazine, we might be trying to do something on, on an art exhibition. And the pictures we get are low resolution. They're not good enough to print. And yes, I will write once and say, can I get high res? But if it doesn't happen, we're moving on. Yeah. And and so I think for, for the starting point. Artists are scared or nervous about reaching out to people, and then also they. Then once they do, they don't have the assets ready to go. And it's like, make life easy for the journalists. As you said, the journalists are overworked. Make it easy, even send them a Q&A with yourself so you don't have to.

James: [00:45:02] Yeah yeah. Yeah. So so they can use a quote. And then the other thing I'd say about that is that, um, part of why I understand why why artists are nervous about it. Because they feel like they maybe feel like they shouldn't do. They feel like again, it goes back to that idea of what is success and what we're told when we're younger. And and the feeling is, well, I shouldn't have to go to people like someone else should be doing it for me. Maybe, I don't know. But what I don't get about it, about that thought process is that why is it less dignified? Or to write and say, hey, I'm doing a show, or I've got an album out, or I'm doing a tour, will you write about me? Why is it somehow more dignified for Ryan Reynolds and Blake Lively to cut a check to someone for $1 million a month, to go tell everyone I'm amazing. To me, that's fucking that's way more undignified and dirty and pathetic. And again, I'm not snagging them more specifically, but every single person who who is successful is paying millions to publicists and and and PR to get, get, get my face on the front of this magazine. Right. Right. And it's like, Ryan, you've got enough money. You're successful enough. Why are you still paying someone? That, to me, is pathetic when you are scraping by as an artist. It's not undignified to write to someone and say, Will you write about my show because you're trying to make a living? It's true.

Christina: [00:46:24] I know it's funny, I didn't I didn't actually ask, ask you, and I didn't even. I didn't expect it. Although, if anything, I would have expected maybe that you wrote back and said, you know, we have some options if you'd like. And here's here are the rates. And that I would have been awesome. Great. You know. Thank you. Because, um, but.

James: [00:46:44] And we do and we do, um, and obviously, yes, we do have rates and advertising is of course, you know, how we make our, uh, it's how the magazine survives. You know, it definitely doesn't survive off of off of newsstand sales. Obviously, we sell direct. Um, the business model is completely different to how it was obviously working in London, where both Pam and I were working for magazines there where we had like 60, 70, 80 people working on those titles and some of whose jobs I didn't even know existed and never met those people. But now we do all of those jobs, like the person whose job it is to make sure that when you pay for a display in Indigo, that the display is being adhered to correctly in Winnipeg, you know that used to be someone else. Now it's now it's me. And again, similarly, back when we were starting out trying to cross everything over, I would take tour dates. These, um, barely paid Yuk Yuk's gigs in Winnipeg so I could check up on the magazine over there and go and meet the store manager of Indigo, all those things. But, um, but yes, advertising. But basically when you got in touch with and I would normally have done that hustle, but it was genuinely like at that point we were we were past the production stage of advertising. And also, I mean, just writing about amazing artists is what we do. So it's not it's not saying we're looking to get and we can let we can let the lovely people of, of Rolex or, uh, you know, other people of Rolex, they can afford it.

Christina: [00:47:59] It's a really sexy, slick magazine. Um, it's funny, I have it on my to do list here to get subscription for us, but also my mom for, um, for Christmas. But just to your point of having investing in good photography, do you know, I got an email from, uh, Anne Murray, uh, one day in 2014. Um, and Anne is Dale, my husband's aunt.

James: [00:48:26] Oh, wow. So she's. I'd forgotten that. That's amazing.

Christina: [00:48:29] Yeah, well, she, uh, she said, you know, in the email. I'd like to. I have some.

James: [00:48:34] Dale Murray. It's funny, I mean, I never. Yeah, I know, I mean. I should have realized. Given it's the Maritimes. I should have realized he's.

Christina: [00:48:42] He's certainly not out there promoting it. Um, but no.

James: [00:48:45] No, but no. And I'm sure it's okay, but yes. No, it's.

Christina: [00:48:48] I'm not related to Steve Martin. But, uh, maybe we are. Um, but but, uh, yeah, she emailed me and said, you know, I have some career advice. Would you would you like to come over to the cottage? Um, because her cottage is just 20 minutes from us, and and I was like, of course, for fuck's sakes. Yes, I will come to your cottage and take whatever advice you know you give me. But it was this pivotal time in my career where I had finally received a lot of financial support to really have I really take a go and just go for the gold, you know, with the recording, with marketing and everything. And, and I knew what I wanted, but it was going to take money and I didn't have that at all out of pocket, you know. And anyway, so I thought Anne's going to give me some singing tips, some and musical tips. You know, and I go to her cottage and she was so great, but she just sat me down and she said, probably paraphrasing this, but basically, you got a great body. You should show it and invest in your photography. And I think she was right. And I started to have a lot of fun with it. And, you know, from the makeup, the hair, the wardrobe, and it helped me in my music videos and, and I just kind of embraced it all. Whereas before I was very nervous and scared. But also, I think also the financial side of that if you want, it's not that the stuff costs is like completely outrageous, but, you know, we have so much great talent that you can collaborate in this. But I mean, for me, at the time it was 1000, a couple thousand dollars versus 20 bucks to your friend with a, you know, with a cell phone. And yeah.

James: [00:50:28] And nowadays those prices are even less because so many people now now know how to do it. Um, so it goes to a question. So prior to that, would you say that you were nervous or of use of of kind of, you know, being, uh, allowing, you know, the fact that you are a beautiful woman? Were you nervous about not using that? But were you nervous about showing it off in much the same way? And an example I would use is like how sometimes in Atlantic Canada, people have this idea of like, well, I kind of need to look like I don't really care. And, and I see it with comedians where everyone's up there in, you know, which is fine. And by all means, if you are the kind of comic that can go up in in a hoodie or a filthy, you know, filthy t shirt and, and do what you do, but as you know, I mean, I, I dress up, I will wear a suit often, often the the more background, the more kind of backwater. You know, if I'm in a drive in or in the middle of the woods, I will actually dress up even more almost to kind of highlight make it it's funny and make it more absurd, but also to show to the audience, hey, we're in a scorching hot venue in the middle of the summer. In the middle of nowhere, you are all in beachwear and you're dying. Imagine how I'm up on stage wearing a tuxedo and bow tie like we're in this together. But also, you came a long way. You took a ferry, boat or whatever it was to do a show. I'm going to give you a fucking show. Like that's my, um. So. So I guess that's kind of my question was, is that did you feel like you almost. You had to kind of, um, you know, I can't think of the right, right word because it's not, but kind of, um, dial it down to kind of look to kind of, you know, because to be a real artist, I want to look like I don't really care or. 

Christina: [00:52:06] I think it just was. Like, I'm easily overwhelmed, like, um, and I think for me, it was just overwhelming to think of like, well, I didn't really know what I wanted to look like. Like it's been years of like of of just going through trial and error. And I was scared to take that on. Like, what, what do what do what do I do with my hair? What do I wear? I wanted to I wanted to be like the artists that I idolized, like Annie Lennox and Tina Turner, and. But I needed to find myself. And that's scary to take that finally take that step. And in music, to music, how I present myself to people. And I'm glad I went through it all, through all the pain and trials and errors, because I think that if I hadn't, I'd be right back there, you know, 10 or 20 years ago, like having no clue and just being full of regrets and like. And now I feel like I've come into, like I geez, I feel like I'm still just getting started, but I know who I am. I know, and I feel comfortable in my skin and I know how I like to present myself and. But that's everything. Yeah, I think it was just scary. But, uh,

James: [00:53:15] Well, that is everything. And that's like, it's that thing about finding what makes you feel comfortable up there and, and, you know, I think when I was starting out, I did the jeans and t shirt thing for a long time because it was that thing of almost thinking, it was almost embarrassed. It's like, well, you know, I'm not very good at this yet. I don't know how to do it. So at least if I look like I don't care, it's less embarrassing. But as soon as I started going, no, I'm going to put myself. I'm going to put the pressure on. If I'm if I'm turning up at some shitty open mic in a bow tie, a just the ridiculousness of how that looks, will, will look. And also another thing that kind of essentially formed how I perform. I, you know, rampaging around the stage and pacing constantly and or frenetic. That very much stemmed from me starting out. And indeed when I moved, certainly when I moved here, um, this style of comedy of people acting like they don't care. And of course, uh, you know, the Louis C.K. style of the Shane Gillis style of Ricky Gervais and wearing a black t shirt, uh, I don't really want to be here. Works great when you are one of the greatest comedians of all time.

James: [00:54:23] It doesn't work when you're when you're starting out as an open mic. And I was going to open mic nights where there would be 12 guys and unfortunately, invariably it was all guys then, um, all wearing basically the same uniform of, you know, dirty t shirt, hoodie coming up, acting like they don't care and, and kind of, you know, doing a deadpan quiet, which again, is great if you are Stephen Wright or, you know, if you, if you but when you're new and you're starting out and you haven't got, you haven't got the jokes and you haven't got the performance, then it's just a person in the corner talking who looks like they don't want to be there. And the only person who doesn't want to be there more is everyone in the audience. So that's where I kind of was trying to overcome that. And I moved here, and I'm trying to do these open mic nights, and I'm turning up and I'm sitting there for hours and hours waiting to go up, watching the audience just sink and sink and just want to just and I mean, in England, they would have just left because they're maritimers, they're polite and they sit it out.

James: [00:55:19] And then I basically kind of realized I need to literally put a, put a, put a firework up the arse of this entire room. So if I run out wearing a ridiculous, you know, penguin bow tie, you know, waiter or just full suit and just go absolutely mad rampaging the room and and at least, um, even if I'm not funnier than my jokes yet, at least I can show them I want to be there. Yeah. And then maybe they'll want to be there. But when? When the performer looks like they don't want to be there, the audience is never going to like. And like I say, this doesn't, you know, it's different with extremely skilled, amazing comics who have done this for 20 years and mastered that as their style. Much the same with with with musicians, you know? I mean, it's like, you know, Liam Gallagher doesn't have to move an inch to be incredibly charismatic, and he can scowl at the audience and he can throw beer at them and he can, you know, uh, give the audience the finger. Um, but if we see an artist that we haven't heard of, acting like they don't want to be there, then no, we don't want them either. And it's such a anyway. But yeah, that's kind of why I, you know, dress up as well.

Christina: [00:56:29] That's why you try. I think it's important to try.

James: [00:56:31] Well, that's it.

Christina: [00:56:34] Um, I think it was one of the Heartbreakers who, who I can't remember which one that said, uh, you know, for. Well, I'm again paraphrasing, but for Christ's sakes, like, just care. Like just care, you know, and and that's one thing I noticed about watching the Heartbreakers is like, they're all they may not be wearing, like, um, um, you know, um, like, bedazzled whatever jackets. But they have this style about them that's really cool. And you can tell they tried. And then of course, the music, uh, is incredible and they work their asses off. I mean, you know, their their entire careers was just like, they were, like, living for this music. And, uh, and it comes across.

James: [00:57:17] Yeah, well, that's it and that's obviously why you're constantly thinking outside the box and thinking about things like, you know, adding a string quartet and, and doing all different things to make. I think that's the other thing, is that because we feel so lucky and happy to to do what we do, it is that thing of and again, I don't know if this is just an Atlantic Canada thing, but I'm always so massively aware of the fact that we are reliant on people coming to shows again and again, more so than in bigger cities like, you know, if you lived in England, you know, you're not expecting the same person to come. I mean, I mean, comedians, for example, tour the same show for 3 or 4 years and Club Comics do the same set for 10 or 20 years. But yet here I'm reliant on the fact that I need people. I really need people. And kindly they do come out 2 or 3 times a year sometimes to see me. And so that is wherever I go. I am like researching, like whenever people get in touch and say, oh, it's my wife's anniversary, it's our anniversary tonight, it's my wife's birthday or whatever it is. I will get some information on that person, try and form a joke about it, try and form something that creates a moment in the room and basically trying to make it so that every show is, is different. And those are the things that I felt like, you know, people get when they come to shows with people like you or I, where it's like we clearly want to be there. But also, crucially, we're so grateful everyone else's, and we're going to make sure they leave. Having had a special, you know, experience.

Christina: [00:58:40] I wonder if you can. Right. We're coming to see you October 25th in Moncton at the Capital Theatre. Such an incredible venue. That's gorgeous. So now you don't have to do this, but it would be hilarious if you if you found a way to joke about Dale being related to Anne Murray. But I don't know if that's possible.

James: [00:58:58] Oh, there's. Oh, there is. I mean, well, the thing is, is most of my jokes stem from just absolutely. A lot of the gags stem from either my, um, kind of ridiculous enthusiasm for things. So the fact that I'm so excited to learn this, that will definitely. But but I don't tell them that's happening. You tell me.

Christina: [00:59:18] I wanna be a co-writer on this joke and make sure it involves shame. The shame of being, the shame involved in being related to Anne Murray.

James: [00:59:25] Right, right.Yeah. And how and how and how most people would brag about it, but but it could could that be any more Maritimes? A- that there's.

Christina: [00:59:32] The fucking embarrassing. 

James: [00:59:33] That just by being in this room everyone here tonight is one has one degree of separation between them and Anne Murray, which is the most embarrassing thing ever. Also, the most Maritimes thing ever is the fact that Dale is so humble that even though he is highly successful in the music industry on his own back, he still doesn't tell anyone that Anne Murray is his aunt. And then. And then I can start playing Snowbird and then away we go. Beautiful.

Christina: [00:59:56] Have you ever written a song or sung a song? I don't know if I've ever.

James: [00:59:59] Well, well, I can't say. Well, just the New Brunswick song, which is the song that I performed with a musician, a British musician, Ethan Ash, that we wrote together. But I can't sing, so I just talk on it, you know? Um, Mike Skinner of the streets, the British, um, the street. It was like a hip hop artist who came out. He's actually exactly my age. And, um, I mean, he's basically so he's like, um, he's a rapper who basically talks kind of like Sleaford Mods anyway. So that was essentially what I, what I do, I just talk. Yeah, I'm channeling him and I just talk over it. So Ethan sings and then there's a couple of lines that I have where I talk and the night where we did the reveal with the with the Saint John Youth Orchestra. I, you know, we had it all set that the conductor was going to give me a nod, and Ethan was going to give me a nod when I should start singing, talking. And I came in just way too early, even knowing that they were going to. And so they're all so there's like 68, uh, kids in this orchestra, incredible, incredible talents. Like, they basically come up through this, some of them come up through the Sistema program. But it was unbelievable how I had when I came up with this idea of basically the joke was, was that I do this thing with sometimes where I end a show with talking about how I want to be a. Depending on where I am, it can be essentially I've got a Canadian passport, but I want to be a new brunswicker and here's what I'm going to do to. So I talk about what it took to become a Canadian. But here's what it takes to become a New Brunswick. And I have this list of jokes, and it's everything from I want to make homemade wine out of a blue plastic barrel that I stole before the pulp mill shut down.

James: [01:01:34] I want to drive a four Wheeler on a highway. I want to pick up women at the Irving big stop. Like all this stuff and this long list. And, um, so for years I had basically with these Imperial Theatre shows because I performed there or basically done a big show in Saint John every year I've lived there, which is ten years. Every year. It's like, how do I up the ante a bit? How do I, you know, and in most, most years in the new, like 90 minutes every year workshopped at long Bay where, where we first met and, um, but this time I was it was my 20th year in comedy. So I thought, I'll do a, for want of a better phrase, a greatest hits tour. I thought, if a musician can do a greatest hits tour, why can't I? And it was basically based on the fact that all these jokes that I was doing here ten years ago or five years ago, I dropped because I felt like everyone had seen them. But then suddenly now there's this huge influx of people that have moved here and and they're coming out to see me.

James: [01:02:23] And I realize that these audiences are not made up of people that came ten years ago. They're made up of new people. So I'm like, well, hey, why have I burned all that material that would be so relevant for them? But so I sold it and I thought, how do I. So the big surprise was, was so when I do this routine, normally the pomp and circumstance plays in the background. So it's a bit like that Molson Canadian ad. Um, and basically over months of rehearsal, we planned it so that I would get to the I would I want to drive a four Wheeler on a highway. I want to, I don't know, wear head to toe camouflage just to go to Tim Hortons. And then I said, I want to share a stage with the Saint John Youth Orchestra. And at that point, the screen goes up and a 68 piece, uh, youth orchestra is right behind me playing. Um, and the crowd crowd obviously goes mad. It was just this amazing moment, just wanting to create experiences where people go, I pay, I paid 40 bucks for a ticket, I laughed, I got my money's worth, and then boom, I got this experience.

Christina: [01:03:18] Big Surprise! Yeah.

James: [01:03:19] It's like, how do you say to people, hey, thank you for coming. But B, please do come again. Please and please, you know, and please do talk about this.

Christina: [01:03:27] Yeah. Always have a symphony orchestra ready.

James: [01:03:29] Oh, yeah. So I'm trying to plan it for future shows in different places because for me it was such a phenomenal experience. But I hadn't really thought about the fact that the feedback I got from them was how great it was for them, because I think possibly those students and those musicians hadn't played to 850 people before. And again, to get, you know, for them to get this kind of full house standing ovation, all this stuff. Um, so anyway, then we did that after that bit ended. Ethan then came out and we did the New Brunswick song, which again, we had, um, Rachel Kidd created sheet music from that. So, so, yeah. So to answer your question, yeah, I unfortunately am not making music. I have the worst singing voice, but I can I can rap, you can talk. Yeah. It's not it's not even rapping because I couldn't even. It would be an insult to him. And I can talk and anyone listening can tell.

Christina: [01:04:16] I bet I'm so curious but we'll have listen, we'll have to have a session sometime. I'm so curious if I can just get you to sing or sing, shout, sing or.

James: [01:04:26] I would love that. We could do some auto tuning.

James: [01:04:29] I would love to to try that. Right. Let's make that a whether it's a podcast or it's a real.

Christina: [01:04:37] Let's just come over and we'll just have a collab. I'll cook. I'll cook for you and Pam can come.

James: [01:04:43] This would be a great. Well, it's funny because I'm always coming up with different TV show concepts and I mean literally people trying to teach me to do things that I could never do would be a great episode. Are you trying to teach me like, and I'm not joking. I'm not being humble and modest when I say I have. The worst thing about it is diabolical,

Christina: [01:05:02] I can't wait. Well, we could we can tweak it.

James: [01:05:05] Right?

Christina: [01:05:06] We can also get it to the best, naturally. But then we can just auto tune you.

James: [01:05:12] Nice nice. Nice. Perfect. So that's. Yeah, but that would be a fun thing to do.

Christina: [01:05:16] It would be fun. It would be fun to meet Pam, to listen, I. I want to keep you forever, but I am. I've already gone over time with you.

James: [01:05:25] Yes, yes. And I'm sorry. And I. And I'm sorry I burned. I wasted the first ten minutes by rabbiting on not knowing that we were. But anyway, um.

James: [01:05:34] We have to keep. I know we have to keep these things tight, because, again, if we've got a map. So. So what's the what's the one thing we should talk about?

Christina: [01:05:41] Well. The one thing, there are so many things, first of all, that you've already naturally like I had it on my list. I wanted to talk about money. You just naturally brought it up. Um, but not just that. The magazine, I mean, you, everything that you do, I do want to mention to my little heartbeat listeners. I mean, I do a lot like my own intro so I can brag about all the things. The podcasts, um, your national best selling book, uh, James Mullinger Brit It happens or Living the Canadian Dream, which I'm a huge fan of. You also do keynote speaking. Um, you're also a hosting creator of Atlantic Edition with James Mullinger. You do Mullings Weekly ramblings. You're a podcast host. So there's I mean, there's more, there's more. I'll I'll cover it all, but I, I just I was going to also ask you about, um, your, your late in life diagnosis with ADHD and, and a very personal question which you don't have to answer or if you. But I recently have started taking a medication for depression and anxiety and and basically I was afraid to do that my, my whole life to actually go, I'm going to be on something forever. And it's been the most positive experience for me. And I don't know if you you chose to do that or not, but but just having that diagnosis, I mean, do we even have time to touch on how that's changed your life?

James: [01:07:02] Good question, and I'll try and keep it quick. I mean, so so my second book that I'm writing right now is, is, is about this. And again, I mean somewhat that as an excuse as a framework for looking for telling stories that I haven't told yet, but essentially, yeah, I mean, it has been even this morning when I woke up and I'm waking up at five in the morning, my brain is going in a million directions. And it's funny you mention all the things that I do. I do, and I'm doing, and it's one of the things that people are kind enough to say, like, you know, I do a lot of things and how do I but but weirdly, my brain still tells me that I'm not doing enough, that my brain is still telling me that I am. I am missing so many opportunities, and I'm not. I'm not going through so many open doors and blah, blah, you know, and it's a crazy thing that we do to ourselves, which is obviously what keeps us productive. But, but and then there's nothing worse than when you're wasting time trying to do everything at the same time. But, um, I did try the medication. I did try the, um, I believe written in his name of the thing, but the one I took was was the thing. Oh, it was called, uh, I've got it here. I believe Ritalin is the. But biphentin and, um, and I, um, I did stop based on the fact that I found it.

James: [01:08:09] Um, it did the thing it's supposed to do, which has made me. Which it made me focused. Um, but it also made me a bit, like, a bit, for want of a better phrase, high. Like the effects reminded me of stimulant drugs from when I was younger. Interesting. Yeah. And and so I kind of just thought that's probably not a good thing. And also I've managed so far, like it's it definitely made me be able to focus on a project, which is great. But then equally, the doing 50 things at once might be a nightmare for me mentally. And of course, I guess if it got too much, I always know that option is there. But I've now taken the knowledge as the as the as the medication. Essentially. Like this morning when my brain is going wild and I used to lie there thinking, what the fuck is wrong with me and get depressed about that? Now I just go, well, that's what that is. I know what that is. It's that thing. And so I think I definitely could have used it to very great benefit as a younger person. Certainly at school when I was struggling in school or the rest of it. Um, but yes, now I kind of go I'm somewhat able to channel it and go, okay, just focus because, yeah, I guess, um, what I didn't want to happen was to start taking it because it reminded me of, of of drugs that I used to enjoy when I was a teenager.

Christina: [01:09:28] Right.

James: [01:09:28] Yeah. Yeah. And it's kind of. Yeah. So I guess that's what. And again, it's different for everyone. Everyone has different, um, uh, things for it. But I just thought, well, if I cannot also the other thing is, is and I think I maybe joked about this on stage, um, that that night when you, when you were kind enough to come and see me, was that, um, I don't know if my my stand up is so much like how I'm talking now, where it's just all over the place and all these tangents and, you know, it's just like this, like basically me, me rabbiting on kind of, you know, we go, we go, we go. We're both the same. We go off on multiple different tangents, but we always come back to them. And sometimes that conversation, if you try to map it, it would look like the wall of a serial killer's house. Or no, worse, it would look like the wall of the detectives of the of the suspended detective trying to solve the Zodiac Killer. But all these different strands. And so I my fear was like, what if that doesn't? What if me suddenly being all sensible and straight and focusing on one thing doesn't work with the stand up? So really, my medication has always been stand up. I heard a wonderful quote recently from a comedian where someone said, you know, how do you cope with being on stage every night in front of hundreds of people? And he said, it's weird because life is so busy. He said, what's funny is he's been doing it so long now that when he walks out on stage in front of 500 people every night, his first thought is, ah, at last, some time to myself, yeah.

Christina: [01:10:44] Yeah, some time to myself. Yeah. Or being present. Perhaps it's the time when you're like, well, I really have to be present.

James: [01:10:52] And then that's the thing. It's like it's the time when. And that's what I always enjoyed about it, was that no matter what else was going on, I'm someone that panics and worries and I'm a stressor. And then even if there's nothing professionally to worry about or career wise to worry about, I will create things like, oh my God, what's going to happen when my loved ones die or something terrible happens? But like, my brain will always go to the negative. And I love the fact that we have, you know, an hour to 90 minutes most nights where no matter what else is going on, you get to focus on one thing. And so that's, that's to me, that's that's the best, um, that's the best medication. But it's um.

Christina: [01:11:23] Yeah, that's that's that's great. That is that's helpful. And I think one thing, the important thing you said too, was the awareness of, um, okay, now this I know what this is, and I, you have this radical acceptance which can, um, it's it's almost like stepping back outside and watching your thoughts and your behaviors and going, ah, I see okay, I'm going to go back into it now, but I'm going to not freak out about it. I'm just going to roll with it.

James: [01:11:51] That's exactly it. That's exactly. It. Um, can I ask you one question? Can I ask you one? Yeah, I know you can, but but, but but, um, your your seventh album, I believe it was which came out. Am I correct in saying during Covid wonderful lie, which I absolutely love. Um, and I'm curious as to and it must have felt like and it's, you know, I love everything you do. It was just such an amazing album, and you must have been so, so excited to get it out there. And then suddenly you're having to release it during Covid. Did you find that Covid in some ways helped it reach more people because people were home? Or was it incredibly frustrating not being able to go on the road? And then also tagged on to that question, because I know you said only one, but with a tiny little asterisks and caveat. How was it you were able to be putting this beautiful work out there, but still had the impetus and the drive to write such a beautiful album of storm, while that was out there and still needing to be promoted.

Christina: [01:12:46] Well, well, wonderful. Lie was, was, you know, what came after a very heavy big project was impossible to hold. And it was our way of like we do tour a lot for financial reasons as well, but also because we enjoy it. I tour with my husband, Dale Murray. It was our way of doing some stripped down songs, and also five covers of songs that I really loved, or that Dale and I both loved doing on the Road. So there's a Paul Westerberg song on there. I'm a huge Paul Westerberg fan. Um, there's a Bob Dylan song, there's a, uh, Richard Thompson song on there. And, um, and so it was. Yeah, we were touring across Canada. We had plans to go, of course, back to Europe, and we had plans to tour in Japan, and I was really starting to feel like, finally, I'm paying myself back for this big investment of this choice I've made. And, um, but I didn't. I didn't expect that. And I didn't have any grand expectations for, like, the album actually reaching too many people because in my experience, it's always been about getting in front of people, have the eye contact, do your thing that you do in those spaces. So when we couldn't do that any longer, when we had to actually come home from Europe to our, um, it was quite scary. Um, and then you just I'm very much like my, my mother in that when the shit hits the fan, you do what needs to be done, and you pivot and you think of not what we can't do anymore, but what can you do? And had the opportunity, as I think we were very fortunate to be in Atlantic Canada and to be in Nova Scotia and be a registered business and all this stuff to access funding, to be able to go online and get the technology and all that and learn something new and have time at home.

Christina: [01:14:36] But I did have time to work on this album, and I did have these opportunities to financially through Factor Canada and to do the album I really wanted to do, um, which was storm and To Dream Big again. And I'm still in the dream now. I'm seeing these things happen. Um, and I think having the time and space is really important as a creator. Um, I had that. I made time for it. Um, and then, of course, once that that puppy is out of out of the gate, I no longer had the time. I haven't written much since, you know, it's just been marketing, touring, um, dreaming and scheming and trying to build this thing. Um, so, I mean, how is is kind of a question. I think time and space. Right. You got to make the time and the space. As you know, you have to make time to write and work on the jokes, and then you have to go out and practice them. So we have to we went out and toured the album just as a duo. We're only now starting to do it with the band and I, you know, bullshit. To the folks who think that an album has to be released within six months and then that's the end of it. I'm dragging this one out until I'm done.

James: [01:15:50] Absolutely. Well, and that's and that's the great thing about doing what we do, not only in this region but in this country, full stop, is that there is no, uh, like well-worn path of how it should work. It's literally we can all find our own path. And I find that's the most gratifying and, um, fulfilling thing about doing performing arts in any discipline in this country is, um, any way you can find to to make it work is the correct way. Yeah. And, and you know, and in those other places, like you said, where someone says or someone's got a manager or someone breathing down their neck saying, you have to do this and this, you know, the album comes out then, and then you tour from here to here. It's like, no, no, no, no, no, no. We will go and perform to the people that want to see us. When we do, we will release the thing. We want to release it. Yeah. And and really. And if as long as we're in front of people and people are enjoying what we do, then we're all winning.

Christina: [01:16:45] Yeah. And like you said something earlier, you know, if it's not there for you, if the opportunity is not there, you You make it happen. And I have done that a lot for myself at a high cost. I continue to do it and you know, and I but I just I've been through it enough now to like I was so scared in the past. But now I'm like, you know what? It's going to be fine. Like, it's as long as everyone in my relationships, like my husband is on board and supportive. We know the risks we're taking and we're willing to do it. It feels so good. You know, it's still a little scary, but like, of course, you at least know that you're not going to come out of it with a divorce or like, uh, going to jail. Like, you know, like my father should have probably.

Christina: [01:17:27] You, uh, yeah. So it's and I do think of my deathbed a lot. I think of, like, what am I going to regret if I'm on my deathbed? I'm going to regret not having tried, you know, to, um, to do this thing, that this is the thing that I think you can relate to this as well. It's like the ultimate joy is like connecting with people in these moments that are so precious, and you can't get those when you're sitting at home and it's hard to get them, you know, even though I feel like I'm connecting with you right now. But when you're performing for an audience online, it's quite different. It's not that it's not fun. We found ways to connect, for sure. Yeah, but nothing beats for me anyway. The in-person look at, you know, looking at people's eyes, you're running over and touching someone's hand on stage.

James: [01:18:12] Totally.

Christina: [01:18:13] And they're shouting back at you and it's like, oh, that's they're coming at the merch table. And they're telling you stories, you know, and they're quoting your songs or something. It's like.

James: [01:18:21] Yeah, there's nothing like it. Um, well, this is this is definitely part this is definitely part one, because I just realized when you were talking about when you were just talking about you and Dale on the road, I was thinking about the fact that there must be no. Again, I was talking about the naught naught 1% of people that get to do what we do for a living, but there must be 0.000 no no no, no 1% who work with their partners. Yeah, basically 24 over seven. Now, granted, Pam isn't always coming on the road with me, but in terms of the magazine, we are. Yeah, we are we're working together all the time. So that is a story for part two. What is it like working with our loved ones so that we do everything together? Okay.

Christina: [01:18:55] It's true. Let's do part two. And I do. So I've been curious about AI because I don't like I don't ever want to use it for songwriting, but, uh, I thought I would try and, like, give it a, throw it a bone and like, so, so I asked AI to come up all the words to describe James Mullinger and and this is what it came up with. Like, I think you'd be quite pleased. Okay. Um, engaging. Hilarious. Insightful. Versatile. Authentic. Energetic. Clever. Warm. Resilient. Relatable. Not a shit word about you. I had nothing bad to say. And God.

James: [01:19:36] Bless AI. Because if. It's someone like me, someone sent me a message yesterday saying they had bumped into someone that was filming a TV show in Saint John, and they mentioned that they knew me. And this person said, I don't like him. He's a crackhead. That's why he acts the way he does. That's why he's here.

Christina: [01:19:53] I would have loved for that to come up.

James: [01:19:55] I know, and I thought to myself, well, that's. Yeah. And anyway, I just thought and so people writing these things, thinking because they're like, oh, you'll find this hilarious, but you hear this and think, why are there people talking shit about you behind your back? Which of course there always are going to be. But you know what? Even if the man on the street in Saint John is going around slagging me off and making up lies about me, at least for once, I'm actually pro AI because AI actually said something nice.

Christina: [01:20:17] This is why. I'm like, okay, I don't, but maybe there's there's some good in this and there's, there's a lot of for you. So I just, I want to thank you so much for, for being so generous with your time and today. And I'm excited to hear you. Dale and I are excited in Moncton at the Capital Theatre October 25th. There's more tour dates. Everybody, please go check out Jamesmullinger.com. What? You're excited about something. What?

James: [01:20:37] Yes, I am, so I can't believe you guys are coming. And I'm so honored and so excited. And b, I forgot I meant to thank you. I did a show at the Thirsty Whippet pub in Dorchester. A few weeks ago, beautiful British pub set by a British lady. New Brunswick's first ever British pub she swim England. Lived in Kelowna, with which my brother lives and where I was. Last week she opened the British pub and some loads of people came to the show and a couple came and they were from your town and they drove all the way from Nova Scotia for this show. And they said that we came because Christina and Dale told us to to come. And I've been meaning to thank you because it was just the kindest thing. And they brought some friends and they stayed the night. And then they came to another show. And I'm like, This is Atlantic Canda.

Christina: [01:21:16] Did I make you like 80 bucks. Did I make you some money?

James: [01:21:18] Literally, literally. I mean, you filled my heart with joy, which is a Mastercard. Priceless. Um, and. And my final point on that was going to be, oh, my God, why did I forget you said capitals. Anyway, that was it. Thank you, thank you. Because that was so kind and this has been so much fun.

Christina: [01:21:35] James, your kind, generous, um, reading your book Brit Happens, was a reminder for me that hard work and sometimes risk taking and feeling the fears and doing it anyway. It's all part of making your dreams a reality. It's not all fun and games, but it's sure worth it. Thank you for your time today.

James: [01:21:53] Thank you Christina. You're amazing. You might have just pressed off record, but I will just add this in case we are still recording, which is that, um, that I've been trying to think of a name for my show next year, and the word versatile sounds like a great name for a tour. So we will never forget this moment.

Christina: [01:22:12] Versatile. I can't wait for the big reveal.

James: [01:22:15] Exactly. Yeah. Thank you. And thank you AI and Christina, for giving me my turn name.

Song 'I Don't Want to Say Goodbye to You': [01:22:22] It's Love. I don't wanna say goodbye to you. Oh, I don't wanna say goodbye to you.

Heartbeat Hotline: [01:22:42] Welcome to the heartbeat hotline, 1-902-669-4769. I'm the host of a chat with heart podcast, Christina Martin, and I'm so excited you called. Leave me your question, suggestion for the podcast or a comment about this episode. Please be aware your message may be used on the podcast and social media. Tell me your name, where you're calling from and it's also fine if you want to remain anonymous. Thanks for listening. Have a great fucking day!

Christina: [01:23:15] Thanks for listening to a Chat with Heart podcast produced by me, Christina Martin. Co-produced and engineered by my husband, Dale Murray. Dale is a stellar singer, songwriter and music producer, so check out his website. DaleMurray.ca. The podcast theme song 'Talk About It' and 'I Don't Want to Say Goodbye to You' were written by me and recorded by Dale. Visit my bandcamp to find a CDs. Vinyl. Digital music and fun merch like custom made puzzles and temporary tattoo packs become a monthly or yearly supporter of this podcast and my music endeavors on Patreon. If you're new to Patreon, it's a membership platform that helps creators get paid. I love it! Sign up as a free or paid member at Patreon.com/ChristinaMartin. I would love it if you had time to share rate, leave a review and subscribe to a chat with heart on all the places you listen to podcasts. Wishing you, my little heartbeat listeners, a great day.