Manuel Krass: German Pianist, Actor, Arranger and Composer

Christina chats with her wildly talented friend Manuel Krass about getting his start in music on a beat up piano in his basement, reinventing yourself as a creator, working with fear and  PTSD, and how the pandemic led him to find joy in lego.
 
Manuel Krass, born in 1988, is a pianist, actor, and creative mind in the space between art forms.

After completing his jazz piano studies at the University of Music Saar, he quickly delved into the interdisciplinary realm. In 2012, he composed and performed ballet music for "Silent Mov(i)e," commissioned by the Saarländisches Staatstheater for the Donlon Dance Company (Marguerite Donlon). Since then, he has become a sought-after figure in the independent arts scene of the southwest, making guest appearances at state and city theaters as a composer, arranger, stage musician, and actor. Notable productions include "Untergang" (Theater Trier, Thomas Dannemann), "Was ihr wollt" (Théâtre national du Luxembourg, Frank Hoffmann), "Jekyll & Hyde" (Deutsches Theater München/Zeltpalast Merzig, Andreas Gergen), and "Plus Ultra" (Saarländisches Staatstheater, Die Redner).

Manuel has released several albums, including four under his own name, gaining recognition among a wider audience. His works have been nominated for the Vierteljahrespreis der deutschen Schallplattenkritik (Quarterly Prize of German Record Critics) and reviewed in F.A.Z., Jazzthetik, and the New York Cadence Magazine. 

From 2012 to 2022, he held a lectureship for jazz piano, big band, ensemble, music theory, and ear training at the University of Music Saar.

Chapters

• 0:00 Greetings from Christina
• 0:49 Theme Song - Talk About It
• 1:14 Introduction by Christina
• 4:23 Living in Germany close to France
• 9:56 Growing up with music
• 12:39 The source of creativity and inspiration
• 18:13 Reinventing yourself as an artist
• 21:38 Anxiety and PTSD
• 28:47 EMDR Therapy
• 34:17 Calling bullshit by it's name!
• 36:46 Finding success through hard times
• 41:31 Manuel's fun side hustle with Lego
• 47:24 Checking boxes for dopamine
• 52:20 Carving out your own Path with Heart
• 55:46 Interview with Bill Murray
• 57:27 How Christina and Manuel met - Super weird!
• 1:04:38 Heartbeat Hotline 1(902)-669-4769
• 1:05:11 Podcast Credits
• 1:05:41 Support the Podcast on Patreon

Transcript

Manuel Krass

Christina: [00:00:03] Welcome to a Chat with Heart. I'm your host, Christina Martin. I'm a singer songwriter. I live on a dirt road with my best friend Dale in rural Nova Scotia, Canada. A Chat with Heart is just me having chill conversations with people I want to celebrate, and topics that I'm curious about. If you have a question or a comment for this podcast, call my heartbeat hotline 1-902-669-4769. To send this podcast even more love, visit me online at Patreon.com/Christina Martin. I'm so happy you're listening. Our personal stories have great power to heal, influence and inspire. All we have to do is show up for the conversation.

Song "Talk About It': [00:00:49] If we just talk about it, we can find a way, we can break a dark day. If we just talk about it, we can cut a way. We can make a brighter day.

Christina: [00:01:16] Hi everybody! I love this chat today with my guest, Manuel Krass. I only met Manny and and let me say that I, I think I'm the only one who calls him Manny. We met during the pandemic via email at first, and in this episode, we we share the story about how we were connected. Um, my friend Janis Reicher in Hamburg is to thank for making this connection. Um, after I'd asked Janis if he knew anyone in Germany that would be good to orchestrate my songs for symphony performances. So you'll hear the full story later on in this episode. Gosh, we cover, um, uh, if people stay still, say, gosh, uh, gosh, golly, we cover a lot of ground. In this chat, you'll get to know about Manny's musical background and how he knew at age 11 that he wanted to be a professional musician. Um, we chat Lego mental health, PTSD, post-traumatic stress disorder, EMDR, uh, rapid eye movement therapy, and creating a life in the arts that doesn't necessarily abide by the expectations of society. Manuel Krass is an award winning jazz musician, pianist, actor, and creative mind. After completing his jazz piano studies at the University of Music Saar, he quickly delved into the interdisciplinary realm. He has become a sought after figure in the independent art scene of the Southwest in Germany, making guest appearances at state and city theaters as a composer, arranger, or stage musician and actor. Notable productions include 'Untergang', 'Was ihr wollt', "Jekyll and Hyde", and "Plus Ultra". I hope I'm saying those right. Manuel has released several acclaimed albums, including four under his own name. His works have been nominated for the Quarterly Prize of German Record Critics and reviewed in FAZ Jazz Aesthetic and the New York Cadence Magazine. You can find links to buy and hear his music and upcoming events at Manuelkrass.de. I hope you enjoy my chat with my friend Manuel Krass, aka in our household, Manny the Magnificent. Manuel.

Manuel: [00:04:23] I'm hyped.

Christina: [00:04:24] Oh, is this your first? Is this your first Canadian podcast interview?

Manuel: [00:04:30] This is my first podcast like worldwide podcast interview, actually.

Christina: [00:04:35] Oh my God, I'm super, super pumped and honored. I feel very blessed that you've, uh, made time for a chat with heart. It's really good to see you.

Manuel: [00:04:45] Likewise.

Christina: [00:04:46] And hear you. And, uh. Well, listen, I want you to tell my little heartbeat, uh, listeners, just like where you are in the world, because. Yeah, you're not. You're. I don't know if I've. I don't think I've chatted with any non-canadians or non-resident Canadians. Um, so, uh, why don't you fill us in on where you are? What part of the world.

Manuel: [00:05:10] Uh, what part of the world? I'm located in Germany, in the, uh, southwestern part, near the French border. Like if I hop into my car, I'll be in France in, like, ten minutes or so, maybe even seven, seven minutes. It's really, really close. I don't speak a word of French, though. It's kind of embarrassing, but it's. It's what it is.

Christina: [00:05:35] What about, do you speak other languages? Because a lot of your a lot of, you know, Europeans do have at least one other language in there. Okay. I said that as soon as I asked that, I'm like, okay, you're speaking English right now. I think we should give you credit now.

Manuel: [00:05:47] I am, yeah, but like, I can order a coffee and some bread and baguette and stuff, uh, in French and also in Spanish, but but it's all pretty, uh, basic. Yeah. That's okay.

Christina: [00:06:00] That's super sexy that you can literally just hop in your car and drive over to France, like, that's.

Manuel: [00:06:06] It is, it is. And there's in in Germany there's this, um, like this cliche that all the people from my region all speak French, like, fluently. And interestingly, it's, it's really not the case, but the, the, the French people across the border, just across the border, they all speak some type of German like heavy dialect, but it's still German. So yeah, there's a little bit of work to do on our end, I guess.

Christina: [00:06:35] Yeah. And can you perhaps dispel this myth? I think it's a myth only based on my own, uh, touring experience in, in Europe. Um, because when you know, people here in North America, you're talking to them and they're, they're, they hear that you're about to go over and tour in Europe or in Germany. The one of the first things they say always is like, oh, everybody speaks English. It's like this assumption. But I mean, do you do you find that I don't find that.

Manuel: [00:07:05] I mean, in in Germany, I have no idea, obviously, but, uh, but apart from like I. I got through everything with English just fine. So. But maybe it's just musicians and actors circles. So there's a lot more people who speak English because they they're used to it in the business.

Christina: [00:07:28] Yeah. Perhaps too, I found the region. So the further east you go and and places in Bavaria, um, I find that I do run into people who do not speak. And it's any English usually it's, it's, you know, like a generation older than my, my own hours. Um, I think I might even be in a different generation than you. I think you're far younger than me, but, um. But, uh. Yeah. So I think that's part of it, too. But there are some regions where I've just found I. If I don't speak German, then I'm fucked.

Manuel: [00:08:06] Yeah, yeah, that might be true. I mean, it's it's definitely not a safe thing to just assume that everybody is fluent in English here. Um, I mean, I'm not fluent. I'm just getting by, but, um. Yeah, it might be. It might be a regional thing like Bavaria is tends to be a little bit less open to the world without getting into that cliche too much.

Christina: [00:08:32] Oh no, let's shit on Bavaria. It's one of my favorite places. I'm just really.

Manuel: [00:08:36] Really.

Christina: [00:08:37] Oh I love, yeah, we lived there and we did it for a while during an artist residency.

Manuel: [00:08:42] Yeah in Dachau, Right?

Christina: [00:08:42] Yeah. But a lot of when we're not in Bavaria, a lot of people kind of refer to to Bavaria as its own country, which I suppose at one point it kind of was in a way.

Manuel: [00:08:54] And in many political contexts, they try to be as well, not like independent, but they try to do their own thing. Yeah, a little bit. And yeah, that's like it's, it's, uh, a good thing and a bad thing about Germany that we have this, um, what is federalism is a German word. Say that again, these federalism is federalism.

Christina: [00:09:16] Oh, federalism.

Manuel: [00:09:17] We have these we have these states. Yeah. Um, that are independent politically in many aspects. For example, education. Yeah. And and also cultural funding and stuff. That is this is all stuff that the, the whole of Germany doesn't really care about much. But it's all like from region to region, from state to state, it's different. And that is um, it has its advantages and also its disadvantages.

Christina: [00:09:45] Right.Well, I guess we won't get even more into that, because what the fuck would I have to ask about federal federalismus?

Manuel: [00:09:55] Federalismus?

Christina: [00:09:56] But I want to go back to, uh, your youth. And because I'm very I'm very curious. I think my listeners, um, are always curious. Curious about how did this, how did this musical talent evolve. And so I wanted to ask you, if you have these memories, like, of your kind of or maybe your parents told you first times putting your hands on the piano, what was that like? And then like, do you have early memories of composing and playing music? Like, tell me more about that.

Manuel: [00:10:30] Like our household was very musical in general. Like my my father studied clarinet and my mother was a hobby flutist. And so music was all around me when I grew up. And, well, both of these woodwind instruments that were in the family, they're very, very delicate and they break easily. So I wasn't allowed near them.

Christina: [00:10:59] Okay.

Manuel: [00:11:00] And we also had this pretty beat up piano in in our basement. And when I was, I think I was three, uh, that's the, the story. I just went there and said, well, you don't let me touch the clarinets and the flutes, so I won't let you touch the piano anymore. This is my life now.

Christina: [00:11:22] Yeah, way to go.

Manuel: [00:11:24] And I and I did, and yeah, that was kind of like the start. I just, um, I took some lessons when I was five, I guess, I think, and and took it from there. I tried to compose some pieces. I remember composing one for my grandma when she, when she turned 60. Um.

Christina: [00:11:47] Oh, that's sweet.

Manuel: [00:11:49] It is. It was also half borrowed from a piece that I was already playing at the time, so.

Christina: [00:11:54] Oh, so you learned about plagiarism. Did anybody else know, though, like, did your grandma. 

Manuel: [00:11:59] Yeah, yeah, my my father totally did. It was super funny because like, the, the, the A part was actually an original. I came up with that. I discovered thirds and how Harmony works and, and then I at some point I just thought, well now this thing that I know would pretty much fit in there. And then I did. And when I played it to my father, I played it up to that point. I remember that. And then I said, yeah, and then this, this, it just goes on like that. And he read the sheet music and said, yeah, how does it go on? Just play it. Yeah. You know, it's like this piece that I already play and you know.

Christina: [00:12:39] Oh my goodness. Well, hey, I think but isn't that a good example too that as artists we do take inspiration, borrow, steal sometimes from other, I mean, uh, you know, other artists, other pieces.

Manuel: [00:12:56] We have to I'm. I'm absolutely convinced that we have to like this, this idea that creative processes just come out of nowhere. It's it's just bullshit. I think because we're all we're all the mixture of all our of our inspirations. And there are so many in the world and they're so easily accessible now compared to like, uh, 50 years ago. And we have to take everything in, I think. And, and from there we remix, we, we adapt. And it's not less original, just because it's inspired by something specific. Um, I mean, it's a of course, just copying. That's not a good idea, of course, but everything, once you adapt it to something, you're doing an original thing again. And that's what creative people have been doing for, for, for eternities, right? Yeah. It's just that especially in, in jazz music where what I studied, it's there is this idea that you have to come up with your own stuff that was never there before. And it's, it's super exhausting to try to do that.

Christina: [00:14:09] It's a lot of pressure.

Manuel: [00:14:09] Yeah.It also means that you can't apply the things that you learned because you know them already. You know how to apply them. So they're not original. They're already there. And that makes you reinvent the the wheel. Every single time you try to come up with a song or a piece of music that's not viable in the long terme, I think.

Christina: [00:14:31] Yeah, I'm glad you said that. I, I mean, I can think of so many of, uh, the songs or the songs I'm working on or songs I've written that the initial spark was, I was either reading a book or listening to music in the car, and that triggered something, an idea that clearly came from it. Or sometimes it's two songs, two pieces of or rhythms or whatever that sparked the beginning of another song that then I maybe took into a different, you know, different space or direction. But so I think that's an interesting thing to to bring up that, that it's rare, rare to almost never that something really does just come out of nothing. Yeah.

Manuel: [00:15:23] So yeah. And I mean, whatever you heard or read or consumed in whatever way. It moved you in a way, and that's the best starting point for anything that's creative, that something moved you and you are moved inside. I think it's just, um, it's the natural way to go. Also, there are so there's so much great stuff out there, like when I try to orchestrate and someone comes to me and oh, this is, this is just like Ravel. And I'm like, wow, this is the biggest compliment because that that guy was awesome at orchestrating. It's it's wonderful that someone hears my inspiration from analyzing Ravel in in my orchestrations. It's it's yeah, I wouldn't feel offended by that.

Christina: [00:16:10] I love it, I love it. Sometimes I get, um, a Dolly Parton, which I don't think I sound like Dolly Parton, but I love Dolly Parton and, um, and, uh, or like a reference to even artists that I admire, but I'm not. I never followed them. But there's a, um, people that's just a human. I think, tendency right to, to sort of go, oh, where did where have I heard this? Or maybe they hear the influence. It's, um, you know, they, uh. Yeah. But I, I love it when those things, um, come up, come out. Um, unless you just your entire career, you only hear that one comparison, then that can get a little frustrating. Yeah. Maybe I should move on and expand my. Broaden my horizons.

Christina: [00:16:54] Um, I read it.

Manuel: [00:16:55] I mean people try to to structure their input, right? They they try to, to connect it with things that they already know. So it makes them it makes it easier for them to process it. And I think that's totally fine. The thing about like comparisons or like copying people is the what I am always afraid of is copying myself. This is the one thing like that I've. I always, always think that this when I come, when I write an idea and I've used that a similar thing before that I, I'm just losing it. I'm losing my spark. I'm losing the creativity. I'm just copying myself. And I mean, there are many composers and artists who who made a career out of copying themselves.

Christina: [00:17:42] Absolutely. Especially in pop, rock and folk.

Manuel: [00:17:45] Absolutely. Yeah. And film music. Hans Zimmer it's it's all the same. And mostly um, and that's why he is successful, but still I this is the one thing that I maybe have a vulnerable point. Um, I just try to not copy myself. I try to to adapt and try to. Yeah, just just come up with different ways of doing the same thing. But then in the end, it's not the same thing, of course.

Christina: [00:18:13] So I read a quote about you, um, on your website, uh, by the, by New York Cadence magazine. He never takes the obvious route.

Manuel: [00:18:22] I love that quote.

Christina: [00:18:23] I love it too. So obviously this resonates with you and, um, um, yeah, expand on that because I think what you were saying earlier does touch on that. Um, but is that part of your so is that part of your conscious, like, I'm, I'm. Yeah. I'm looking out that I'm not copying myself and like what what would be the unexpected route. Like, do you actually have that or do you just kind of naturally has that been your way in life?

Manuel: [00:18:51] Like I think it's both I like it's it's the way that feels. I'm just I just write for me. But also I have to keep that in mind because the obvious thing, it's yeah, it's always there. But the first thought, sometimes the first thought is, is a good one. But in many cases, the first thought is just what springs to mind. Uh, first for me, but also to everyone else. And then it just it kind of bores me, if that makes sense. It's just I don't want to do, um. I don't want to express myself artistically in a way that is predictable to everyone because it's the obvious route. Um, and so I try to, to just think again, try to find the, the core of what I want to do and then just evaluate from many, from many different versions. Which one is the one that surprises me and moves me the most? Does that that make sense? Does it is it.

Christina: [00:19:56] Absolutely. Yeah. Totally. Totally. You know. Going back to you saying how earlier how you haven't mastered the English language or you don't feel like you're I mean, you are you you're good, you're good, you're great.

Manuel: [00:20:11] I'm giving my best thank you. Uh, yeah. No, no, it's. All, uh. Yeah. You're shining. It's fine. Trust me. As someone who struggles with the English language as well, I commend you.

Manuel: [00:20:22] I struggle with German as well. German is a crap language.

Christina: [00:20:26] It's quite interesting. It's quite interesting. Some times. Comical how long some of your words are. Um. Yeah. That's all I'll say. Um, but then that being said, I have actually enjoyed studying the German language, which I've conveniently forgotten most of all of it, but did spend years studying it and and in university. And, um, I found it. I think that the thing I did appreciate it was that, you know, there was like a I found the structure of learning it to be absorbable. And I'm someone who grew up in a French speaking household, learned French in school, struggled with learning French. I found that more of a challenge for some reason. And then my German in my started studying it when I was 19. Um, for the, you know, first half of my 20s, I suppose I got better at speaking German. I just found it easier for some reason. Like there was reason. I don't know, it just made more sense logically, like it was logical in a lot of ways. But then there were.

Manuel: [00:21:33] It's very logical. That's true. It's also, uh, downside.

Christina: [00:21:38] Yeah, yeah. So anyway, anyway, German, German. Schmerman. Um, hey, uh, I, I was curious because I read that you were, uh, coming up, you have, um, you're involved in, uh, in a presentation called anxiety. And I'd like to hear what that's about. I mean, obviously, it's clearly it's about anxiety, but, like, I was curious about your own connection with anxiety. And anxiety is something that I've lived with. Um, and, uh, you know, done a lot of personal work to, uh, learn how to, you know, learn techniques to basically, uh, feel fear, work with fear, do something that scares me, you know, like reducing negative thoughts, increasing positive thoughts. And but learning the techniques really helped me. They were a game changer in my life. But tell me about this project, what your role in it is, and then I'd love to hear about your own experience with anxiety if you have some.

Manuel: [00:22:40] Yeah. Yeah, sure. Um, the project is actually called Like You. It's a pun, a German pun. You could translate it like with Anxstitute. Maybe.

Christina: [00:22:50] So. Okay, so when I say it's like, uh.

Manuel: [00:22:53] Anxiety and attitude as a.

Christina: [00:22:55] Oh, so when I, you know what, here's the thing. Your website right. Translated automatically to English. So I read. 

Manuel: [00:23:02] It did it. I didn't even know it does that.

Christina: [00:23:05] The english translation was, well there. So it says you have a Whitney Houston In Church thing coming up. And then there was it just and then it said anxiety anxiety anxiety, anxiety. So that's why. So okay. So tell me it's a pun.

Manuel: [00:23:18] Yeah. Yeah it's a pun because it's a, it's an uh, an installation with, with live dance.

Christina: [00:23:25] Ah.

Manuel: [00:23:25] But I actually won't be present. I'm just, uh, I'm doing some I'm reading some texts, but they're recorded. I'm also composing music for that at the moment. Um, and it's, it's inside of a boat or like a small ship. Yeah. It's a small ship that's been rebuilt to serve as a theater room. Um, like a theater ship. It's it's pretty, pretty nice. And we will, um, just have a room for people to discover things inside of there, and. Yeah, it's all about the. It's all about fear and panic and anxiety and our attitude towards it. That's that's the idea. Like what? Even with, um, with group dynamics, there's going to be like an old school telephone, um, that someone picks up, it will pick up hopefully somewhere in, uh, during the. 

Christina: [00:24:25] No. People don't pick up the phone anymore. I don't know if you knew that they'll pick up a cell phone, but they won't answer an actual.

Manuel: [00:24:31] It's like it's it's really, really old. Like it's from from the 70s. It doesn't even have button buttons. It has this, this dial thing that you have to turn.

Christina: [00:24:40] I love it.

Manuel: [00:24:41] Yeah. And there will be some, some texts that only this one person will hear. Like there's, there's two buttons in the room. Someone might press it. You will have to make sure they're going to press it. If they press the that one button, things get very loud if they press the other one. It doesn't. So now you think. And so it's kind of psychological and and yeah we're still in in the late stages of, of getting the material together okay. But it's gonna, it's gonna be very experimental and very interesting I think. And it's um, I started that idea with, with a friend of mine, and when we talked about, um, our own experiences with, with experiencing fear, like, in a moment, what does it do with your body? What does it do with, with your perception of a room that you're in? And we we thought it would be an interesting thing to to do in an artistic way and a creative way. And yeah, like I have a lot of experiences with, with alarm systems in my body. It's not just fear. Mhm. Uh, I was diagnosed with PTSD a few years back, and so whenever there was a trigger, I just went straight into panic mode. And I know what that does to your perception of everything in that moment. So it's just all tunnel vision. Everything is on on alarm and it makes or for me it made the room twist in a way like it, it really it it made my, my spatial vision change. And that was super weird. And that is something that we will try to, um, to adapt with, um, with a beamer and a video artist who will just try to project the, the ships in turn, like the walls and stuff and then start to, to twist and morph that onto the actual walls. So it feels like the ship is just melting or something.

Christina: [00:27:03] Yeah.

Manuel: [00:27:04] That will and also it's of course it's rocking. It's a ship on on water. So it's, it's, uh, not the most stable environment anyways. So I guess that will make some people experience in a hopefully a little bit more comfortable way, but still, um, just make them think about what it, what does fear do to me or anxiety or panic or whatever it is.

Christina: [00:27:31] That is super fascinating. So for you in your case, went to got this diagnosis like was that like a um, almost a bit of relief or like were you then able to find some helpful tips, tools, techniques that kind of helped you live with move through that experience when you were experiencing the PTSD, uh, symptoms?

Manuel: [00:27:57] Um. I mean, that I wasn't relieved. I know of many people who are relieved when they get the diagnosis. I was just like, okay, this this kind of explains it. I it all makes sense now. That's good. But it doesn't help. Like the diagnosis itself. It's still there.

Christina: [00:28:22] Yeah.

Manuel: [00:28:23] So, um, of course it's the first step towards help. That's that's clear.

Christina: [00:28:29] But what what. What has helped? Has anything helped?

Manuel: [00:28:32] Yes. Yes, absolutely. I mean, it's PTSD is a bitch. It it really is. Sorry for the language.

Christina: [00:28:40] Oh, are you kidding? You. Have you not heard?

Manuel: [00:28:42] You're all about swearing i remember. 

Christina: [00:28:46] Jesus.

Manuel: [00:28:47] Yeah. No, it's it's really it's it's a really bad thing to have because it affects everything. It affects your energy. It affects your day to day life. Because behind every corner there are triggers. And for me, it was when I got triggered and it could be by anything. At some point I knew, okay, I have to work through the immediate panic now and the next two days I'm just going to be out of commission in a way. So it was just it drained me that much. I had no energy. I just, um, yeah, I just got through the days barely until I my energy recovered. And then if it went bad, the next trigger came and it all started again. So it really, uh, it affects everything in your life. And when I was at a point that I thought, okay, this is this is no way to get forward anyway. I can't live like this. This is not possible for me. Um, I just had the I was lucky, I was super lucky. I got, um, to a therapist who happened to to specialize in trauma therapy. That was not not a conscious decision. I just asked someone if they knew about someone and they said, yeah, I like this guy. This. He's he's cool. Um, and I just it was the first try and it was it was perfect. But that was really it was not an achievement. It was just luck. Um, and he did a thing to me that's called, like he. Of course, first he stabilized and I have a ton of, um, of things to do that can stabilize my emotions and my bodily processes when, when I go into a panic or I'm just really stressed out. It works for non PTSD stuff as well. Yeah. Um, and when that worked and I tried to, I said, okay, I think we can, we can stop fighting symptoms now and go to fight the root of it. Um, yeah. Uh, it's super hard. Of course. Um, he did a thing that's that's called EMDR. It's, you know that.

Christina: [00:31:06] Yep. Yep. Familiar with it? Yeah. Correct me if I'm wrong, but is it not involve, sort of like your eyes are closed and you're moving them from side to side, but you're they would walk you through the trauma and feeling all the things.

Manuel: [00:31:19] Um, yeah. It's like it's it's a super. It's a magical thing, if I'm honest. Like, it's some kind of bilateral stimulation to the brain. You can do that by moving your eyes left to right and right to left. But for me, it was like I had a buzzer's, like small vibration motors in my hands, and they just kept buzzing right and then left and then right and then left. Um, and that has the same effect, um, because the brain gets stimulated in a way and then you really like, you have to do the one thing that you have. Yeah. Just avoided doing all the time. You just go into that flashback moment and you, you yeah, you take the deep dive into it. And that's so hard that maybe it was the bravest thing that I've ever had to do. It's it's super hard and but and it was, it was hard. Like there was a puddle of tears afterwards on the floor. I cried so hard. Wow. But then I really have to say, it's magic. After that it was like, I think it was two sessions. And while you have these pulsing things in your hands and you, you have all these memories, all these pictures and all, all the stress there, it's like someone for me, it was like it was on a screen that someone just rolls back. It just got smaller. And at some point it was just it was so small I could barely just see anything. Yeah. And then it was gone. And then you take it, you take it back and it's there again. And then. Still again, it's it's taken away the same way. And in the end, I can think about that, that trauma now and I'm in control. Yeah. That's that's the thing. It's just it's gone. And it's like I thought, well, why would why wouldn't we do that sooner? I mean, this is incredible. And he said, yeah, but you have to have the courage to do it and you have to work up to that. But it's, uh, really anyone who's suffering from PTSD, I just I can't recommend that highly enough.

Christina: [00:33:31] One of the things that I think growing up, you do, or if you go through something difficult in order to survive, is you you try to forget it, right? You try to forget it. And or people in your life maybe, perhaps at times are like, focus on the positive, don't you know? And but when they say that oftentimes it's like, let's just push it away. Push it down. Yeah.

Manuel: [00:33:52] And it's not healthy.

Christina: [00:33:53] No, it does not work. And uh, um, you know, certainly at some point there's, there's a bit of like I think I've got to accept that, you know, this thing happened, this it happened and bad things will, will happen again, like, because that's another thing we're not really raised to. No one says, you know, you're going to experience pain. It is a part of being human.

Manuel: [00:34:17] Um, yeah. And also you're allowed to call bullshit by its name. Yeah. Things are are just crappy experiences. You can say, yeah, that was a shitty experience. That's right. It shouldn't have happened to me. But it did. But there's nothing positive about that and about the effect that it had. And it's super liberating to just say that. Yeah, this is this was just a bad experience. There's nothing good about it. Yeah. And this is also something that we, we don't learn in, like the society that we live in.

Christina: [00:34:51] Yeah. We often hear, um, oh, those were different times. Or, you know, the excuses like as to why it might have happened. It's like, can we just fucking admit that this sucked and it shouldn't have happened, like you said?

Manuel: [00:35:02] Yep, yep.

Christina: [00:35:03] Um, the one of the worst things I find one of the that sets me off is that when people just try, yeah, try to come up with all the reasons why it might have happened and it's just so infuriating, so triggering.

Manuel: [00:35:18] Hidden sense to it and all that. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Christina: [00:35:21] Um, yeah. Believe me, I've done it enough myself. Like, to myself, you know, like.

Manuel: [00:35:26] We all have. We all have, I'm sure of that. And of course, there's, um, like, I mean, there's my my trauma is related to my children. And of course, it was an easy thing to say. Well, that that might have been bad, but now my children are here and they're great. So there's one good thing that came from that. It's true in a way. It doesn't make the experience better in any way. That's right. It's just two different things.

Christina: [00:35:53] Um. You can. Ah, yes. I see what you said. I was reading about this the other day. Um, how you can acknowledge the crap and still simultaneously feel, you know, the good things like these emotions towards an experience can happen simultaneously. It doesn't have to be just one or the other, if that's what you were.

Manuel: [00:36:13] Yeah, yeah. The good. Thing doesn't just justify the bad.

Christina: [00:36:17] On that note, because I, we do love talking about thank you so much for sharing too. I do find it.

Manuel: [00:36:23] Oh, sure.

Christina: [00:36:24] Um, not only helpful to others, I always found, you know, seeing people, hearing from people's stories and experiences who live, live a very fulfilling life. I think from my perspective, you're successful, I hope. I don't know if you yourself consider.That about yourself.

Manuel: [00:36:42] Yes, yes.

Christina: [00:36:43] You're good?

Manuel: [00:36:44] The way I define success. Yes.

Christina: [00:36:46] And I think it's important for people going through hardships that maybe don't feel that yet to say, oh, okay, there, other people have success, successful life and still experience these things. And they've worked through through it. They've had tough times. I can do the same, but I do need to do some work. I need to reach out for help. Those things, those are the that's why these stories are so, I think, important to share. And I thank you for opening up about that.

Manuel: [00:37:12] Yeah, I'm all for that because I think it's it's super important to, for everyone to know that mental health is an is a is a topic that almost everyone has to deal with at some point in their life. And just because no one talks about it, you feel like you're the only one and your kind of broken. And that's just it doesn't help if you have mental health issues. So just knowing that it's, it's a common thing and like, yeah, nobody gets worried when you have a physical illness if you break your leg. But when you, you break your mind in a, in some way that's just it's not talked about and that's not, not helpful. So I think talking about this stuff openly is super important for anyone.

Christina: [00:38:01] Completely agree. It's one of the things we we definitely, uh, a lot of guests on this podcast, um, are so lovely and that they are, you know, okay with with sharing. I mean, why should they not be? But, uh, uh, I've just seen the power it has. I've seen the opposite. I've seen how it destroys lives, mental illness. And, uh, when when someone doesn't feel they can reach out, when they are going through something so difficult on their own. So, um, we I think we do have, uh, they're definitely in the last, you know, five years especially. But even beyond that, I've at least here in Canada, like we do, we do really like changes. Positive changes have happened. People are. We even have, uh, you know, I don't know if you have this 911 in Germany where a number you can call for now we have uh, for I think it's 411. I should probably check on that. It's a mental health crisis line, which is incredible.

Manuel: [00:38:57] Yeah, we have that, too. We even have it.

Christina: [00:38:59] There we go.

Manuel: [00:39:00] Even on the on the phone. We also have it available by chat, which I also think is is great. It's a great thing because it lowers the threshold. 

Christina: [00:39:10] That's right. 

Manuel: [00:39:10] For you to, to ask for help because it's more anonymous and all that stuff. Absolutely. And I think it's um, like I have the for me, it was easy to to say, okay, like I'm mentally ill because PTSD is kind of like the, um, that one mental illness where you're where you're not at fault, if that makes sense. Like something happened to me and it was not in, in my mind to do anything about it. It just happened to me. And now now I'm kind of like, I'm now. Now I'm a mess. So, um, but it's but it's it's just it's not true. Of course it could. The same thing could have happened to me and not traumatized me. It could have been if I was different. Could be. Yeah. Totally. So. So it's just if for depression, you always get told it's like your fault. And that's just bullshit. So it's mental health is mental health and it's everyone gets sick at some point in their life. It's just what it is.

Christina: [00:40:17] True that true.

Manuel: [00:40:18] That no taboos. Let's do it.

Christina: [00:40:20] Yeah. Let's do it. Okay. Yeah. Um, listen, I'm. I'm, uh, transitioning a bit, actually, quite a bit here.

Manuel: [00:40:27] Yeah sure.

Christina: [00:40:27] Fun, fun fact.

Manuel: [00:40:28] All right.

Christina: [00:40:28] Fun fact.Are you ready? Are you ready?

Manuel: [00:40:30] Yes.

Christina: [00:40:31] Uh, well, fun fact about you is, um, you run a side business where you, uh, you sell individual. I've seen it. I've. So I have the. I had the pleasure of doing a rehearsal with you in your in your studio, and but I had to walk through your Lego studio to get to your music studio. And I want to hear about how that evolved into, like, a legit side business. If it's not, like, illegal, then you can talk about it and. 

Manuel: [00:40:58] It's totally legal.

Christina: [00:40:59] Awesome. Because it's so it's just so, I didn't expect it. I didn't expect it. And I was like, this is so cool. 

Manuel: [00:41:03] Nobody does.It's fine. Nobody does. Uh, maybe because there's always this, uh, expectation for creative people who do that professionally to just do that, because when they do something else, they have failed or something. Yeah, it's like a myth. But for me, it was like I, uh, when I went to a very stressful time in my life, um, my co-parent ordered a Lego set from, from the internet. So something and she came to me and said, well, you're so stressed. Take this Lego, go go somewhere quiet and just build this for half an hour and then come back. And then things kind of escalated in a way. Um,

Christina: [00:41:49] Really?

Manuel: [00:41:50] Because I yeah. Because I felt like with your.

Christina: [00:41:53] With your stress or with and you mean.

Manuel: [00:41:55] No, no no no. But with, with with Lego in my life.

Christina: [00:41:58] So the Lego actually did, building the Lego did in that, in that example helped actually. 

Manuel: [00:42:03] It helped. Super. It's a great thing because just um, yeah, putting bricks on top of each other. It relaxes me so much. And, and then I just thought, okay, well this Lego is expensive and I'm still a musician and actor, so I don't have the funds to to just buy Lego all the time. Um, and but in many of these sets, there are collectible mini figures. There's a collector's market for that. And I'm not a collector. I just like putting bricks on top of each other. Um, and so I thought, okay, just I'll just make a very, very small, easy online shop where just resell these mini figs, mini figures, um, to cross finance the whole thing.

Christina: [00:42:55] Yeah.

Manuel: [00:42:55] And. Then uh, Covid happened.

Christina: [00:42:58] Oh, right.

Manuel: [00:43:00] Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And in the first two weeks or so, I got calls and gigs, got cancelled for €10,000 or something. It was really, really bad. I thought,

Christina: [00:43:10] That's a lot. That's not a that's not a trigger is it that.

Manuel: [00:43:14] No, no, no. But I thought okay that was the profession. There there there goes my plan for life.

Christina: [00:43:20] Sure. We all did.

Manuel: [00:43:21] Yeah yeah yeah. Yeah. Luckily I was wrong. Um, but then I thought, okay, well, what can I do? Uh, I can do the musical stuff that I do anyways. Um, but I have a lot of time now, so why not expand on, on this little online shop that is there already? Yeah. And then stuff grew. And at some point that was all in my apartment at that time. Uh, and at some point it was just, it was Lego everywhere in my apartment. There was nowhere to go. And then I said, okay, this, uh, this needs to go to a separate place. And this is the one that you saw.

Christina: [00:44:03] That is cool. Did your kids like that, that you took on to your kids like Lego?

Manuel: [00:44:08] Yeah, of course they have no choice. Yeah.

Christina: [00:44:12] Well, that's really neat. I think that's cool. And I like that you you touched on the myth that, you know, as if an artist, um, needs to or wants to do something else to, to raise money for their life. Like, there's nothing wrong with that. I, too, used to believe that I. If I couldn't make a living at music, then I, uh, then I was a failure, although I didn't, I didn't really hold that standard up to other people. So I don't know, you know, that's that's definitely changed. But I think the that, uh, the pandemic has confirmed that for me that that is, was bullshit and, uh, yeah.

Manuel: [00:44:56] Yeah, I think there's a lot of, uh, romanticizing of our profession in there.

Christina: [00:45:01] Oh, yeah.

Manuel: [00:45:03] Because it's like many, many people do, acting or music or whatever it is as a hobby. And and that's great. I think it's super important for these people to exist. And we who started usually in our childhoods or so we started it as out as a hobby as well. And then we evolve it into a profession. And then there's this. You have to you make it, you have to make it. So this is the one thing and this is all you do. And yeah,

Christina: [00:45:35] No plan B

Manuel: [00:45:36] I used to think that as well. No plan B because even if you have a plan B or you've already failed, right.

Christina: [00:45:42] That's right. Yeah. That's wrong, that's wrong.

Manuel: [00:45:44] But yeah it's super toxic. Yeah I have yeah. But it's, it's, it's super common. But if you study, if you're studying uh, music then you're kind of allowed to do to be a bartender as well. But once you're, you're done studying, you have to just make your money off from there. And but to be honest, like, I don't even make that much money from from the, the Bricklink store. Um, but it it really helps with my mental well-being.

Christina: [00:46:18] Mhm. Mhm.

Manuel: [00:46:20] So because it's like when we do creative stuff, you'll know that better than anyone. You're never really finished with anything, right. You write a song and there's always that one thing that you could change about it or just try it out or whatever. Maybe it's not finished yet. It's it's all very ethereal in that way. But when I get an order, uh, on in the Bricklink store, I just, I go there, pick the order, I pick the pieces, I put them in an envelope. Um, I go to the post office and that's that's it. It's done.

Christina: [00:46:57] And it's satisfying. I know, job done. I know. 

Manuel: [00:46:59] It's super satisfying. Or I get like, 20 of 20 of a Lego set, and I tried I will put that into my inventory. So I sort it out into their individual pieces. Yeah. And at some point the desk is empty. Everything has been sorted into their bins or into their drawers and I'm done. There's it's just it's.

Christina: [00:47:23] I totally get this.

Manuel: [00:47:24] It's this finite thing. And it's so satisfying when all you do, uh, in, in the rest of your time is never really finished.

Christina: [00:47:33] That's right. And oh, my God, you just hit the. Hit the nail on the head like for me, because I spend a lot of time kind of balancing these parts of my life. The, the sort of. Yeah, the, the the the artistic, the expressionism, the start, you know, starting songs and having, you know, or, or just creative projects. But then on the other side, like, I love being a taskmaster. I love I love seeing things come to an end, like wrapping up projects. That feels really good to me, even just completing and you know, and I know you said sometimes in a song may may not be, but to me, like I do get to a point where I'm like, that song is done, like I'm moving on and that I love the I do love the process and the journey of it all. But like, I'm not gonna lie, I really get it. Some kind of chemical release when I check a box.

Manuel: [00:48:28] Yeah, of course. Dopamine. Here we go.

Christina: [00:48:31] I love organizing, I love cleaning my house. Like, I mean, not everybody maybe does, but I find it really rewarding. So I could see that why that would bring you, you know, some mental. Well, joy. Really. And.

Manuel: [00:48:49] Yeah. And it's just a counterweight to, to all the, the other stuff that I do in my life, which also is pretty scattered and, and I'm pretty organized as well, but many, many different things. And I kind of liked that. I thought about that because you said you like finishing projects.

Christina: [00:49:08] Yeah.

Manuel: [00:49:09] I thought about it because you, you with your music, you have your you are a project, but it's never done.

Christina: [00:49:17] Right. Because you might. Yeah. Good point.

Manuel: [00:49:19] You might, may put a, put out an album and that is done. But like evolving and doing the Christina Martin stuff, it's a project that will that will never be done. Truly. Yeah. And this is a little bit different for me because all my practically everything that I do in a creative way, it's always been projects for many years. I don't have that one band that I've been playing with for a decade or something, and that's my band, my project, that stuff or my my own music. I always do like this, this theater play here and at some point that it might come back, but at some point it's done. And I do this orchestration project there, and it's done when it's done, because I send all the PDFs. Yeah, and all that stuff. So I, I really like my life to be organized in solitaire, solitary projects in a way that makes sense because maybe because of what you say, it makes you, um, check boxes more.

Christina: [00:50:28] I like the checking boxes thing. Yeah, I will, I will say that like thinking of myself as someone who I really do want to keep pursuing this, um, you know, myself, my my my songwriting and my. I guess I feel like an asshole when I say it. My career. Um, but I guess the most important thing to me is, like, by the time, like, when I'm on my deathbed, if I'm conscious and able to look back, I would like to look back and go, I've I've evolved, I've grown, I've tried different things. I've I did take risks, I grew, I, um, worked with other people who helped push me or, and supported, you know, we supported each other. We pushed each other. Um, we but there is a I will say there is a little bit of a discomfort always in. No, in that I will never be finished this fucking long ass project of me. Um, but I do think that's an interesting, you know, even just metaphorically speaking, like for our life is I'm working with a book right now. It's called The Tools. It's it's, uh, I think a lot of people are kind of picking up on this book right now. And the one of the things they talk about in terms of the, the personal, your personal self and is that the work is never done. And, and to accept that the sooner you recognize that and accept that, um, the sooner you recognize that that, you know, challenges will be there in the future. It's it's getting developing your skills and, uh, you know, so that you could better cope, really, maybe improve your quality of life. Um, but that it's not going to end like that. You are better off once you accept that.

Manuel: [00:52:13] Yeah, absolutely.

Christina: [00:52:16] Uh so yeah.

Manuel: [00:52:16] But still, there are many, many ways through that.

Christina: [00:52:19] Yes.

Manuel: [00:52:20] There's not I mean, there are people who do like their ten year plans for their careers or their personal lives or whatever, and they feel comfortable just pursuing these plans with all the tools that they have and that might make them happy. But like, for me, that wouldn't work at all. And no way. I don't even know what I'll do next week if I don't check my my schedule. Um,

Christina: [00:52:46] Well, you found your, i mean, from talking to having. I'm so glad we had some time to together for me to get to know you, like, in person this past year. Recently. And, um, I feel like you are a great example of, like, it's not just one way to figure out your life and to live your life, and you found your own way, and you're going to continue to evolve. Like, I feel like you've kind of accepted that about and you are finding your own way, it seems to be working for you. You.

Manuel: [00:53:17] Yeah. Yeah.

Manuel: [00:53:18] Maybe because I tried to have the master plan when I was young because I, I did decide to become a professional musician very early on, like when I was 11 or so.

Christina: [00:53:30] That's holy shit.

Manuel: [00:53:31] It's really, really, really early.

Christina: [00:53:34] Good for you though. That's incredible.

Manuel: [00:53:36] But yeah, but the thing is, I pursued that. I just I studied music and all that and stuff, and then in the end I was like, okay, but things have evolved totally and not not totally differently, but still differently from what I thought because I thought I was, okay, I'm going to become a professional musician. That means I'll play a lot of gigs and I'll teach a little on the side, and that is what I do in more specifically, uh, playing jazz music. That would be the one thing that I do. And when I, when I look at my life now, that's not true at all. I rarely played jazz jazz music like the original jazz jazz stuff. I still like to improvise a lot, sure, but like, the genre itself is not something that I. I do a lot of stuff in, and, um, I never thought I'd go into interdisciplinary work with dancers or, or just myself becoming an actor as well. I would never I'd never predicted that. So now I do these super different, uh, different type of things, which are all in the general area of what I thought I would be, but it's still totally different from what I thought it would be. So it's it's. Yeah, it's paradox.

Christina: [00:55:05] It sounds rich. It sounds like you have enriched your, um, you know, experiences in, in work and, and we I think I believe, too, that each project you take on then informs potentially what you could then take on again, you know, inspires. And it's sort of as this, you know, you know, if you once you get to a point where you're like, okay, I'm going to branch out and I'm feeling a little stagnant here, the more, yeah, the more unique opportunities you take on, the more well-rounded you become, the more enriched I feel like your life could become now.

Manuel: [00:55:46] There's this great interview with Bill Murray and I. Have I told you about that already?

Christina: [00:55:54] No, you haven't, but I just I love Bill Murray.

Manuel: [00:55:57] There's an interview with Bill Murray, and, I don't know, some of the or one of the old, um, old American talk show masters. I don't know which one. Um. And he he.

Christina: [00:56:12] Johnny Carson, was it Johnny Carson?

Manuel: [00:56:16] No no no no. The one uh. Or is it? I have no idea. Um.

Christina: [00:56:19] That's okay. No worries. Yeah.

Manuel: [00:56:22] Uh, but the thing is, it's a great interview. It's about an hour long. It's it's great. And he says something that really resonated with me when I watched that the first time ten years ago. He says that whenever he is doing anything, being on set, whatever it is, he tries to stay available for life. And I love that because it means inspiration is everywhere. And opportunities to to just learn something and and just discover new things are everywhere.

Christina: [00:56:56] Yeah.

Manuel: [00:56:56] And and I love that because it's, um, it keeps you open, open minded. And that is kind of like what I try to do. And I think you do that too, because, like you, because you you approached me. We we got to know each other when you were searching for someone to orchestrate, uh, songs of yours.

Christina: [00:57:17] That's right.

Manuel: [00:57:18] That that in itself is already thinking about the box. And when you think about the way that we met, it's totally. It was so out of hte box. It's super weird.

Christina: [00:57:29] Let me share. Let me share that real quick because you're right. And this is I mean, to me, this is an example of like, I don't really believe in like just thinking about wanting to do something and it's going to happen. I really think, you know, action is power and, and and when I started thinking about, okay, maybe I'd like to my, one of my dreams is to someday play with symphony orchestras and have have my music, you know, sing my music, perform that. And um, and so I started doing a lot of outreach and asking people, what could how could I do this? You know, you've done this. Um, and the advice that was given to me was get some charts done, get some charts done. Um, so I had to find some people that could do that. And so where I tour in part quite a bit in Europe, um, I thought, well, wouldn't it be great to find a European partner who could do this? But my God, I don't know anybody in the classical world that you know, and then but I knew I do have some, you know, pop rock, um, and trained musician contacts. So I asked a friend of mine, uh, Janis, uh, who played drums with us on a couple of years ago in Europe. And Janis, this is so weird. So Janis was on a tour somewhere in Eastern Europe, and he got out of his car. Do you know where he was? Do you remember the. They were in the city?

Manuel: [00:58:54] No, no. No, but it was some on some parking lot. Yeah.

Christina: [00:58:57] Like maybe in Hungary or something. Like. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Like it was in a parking lot. He got out with his band mates, saw a parking like a license plate on a car from Hamburg, and it ended up being a conductor, am I right?

Manuel: [00:59:12] Yeah. Conductor that conducted a project that I had orchestrated.

Christina: [00:59:18] Exactly what the fuck.

Manuel: [00:59:20] Super random.

Christina: [00:59:20] Jasis. Janis struck up this conversation with this conductor and said do you maybe know somebody I know this Canadian girl who's looking for somebody to arrange her songs for symphonies. And and that is how we met. And I was I just was so also incredibly amazed that you were so, so not just easy to work with, but willing. And, you know, I felt genuinely, you were interested in working, uh, with the songs. It has been honestly, a nothing but joy. I don't even do the work. I feel like you did all the work. I literally was just sort of like, you know.

Manuel: [01:00:02] Well, was it? Well, I. I just built onto the good existing work. That's that's the good thing about arranging stuff. You just have to find the, the good stuff that's already there and then you build stuff around it.

Christina: [01:00:17] Well, the communication, the communication. And of course, I mean, I just had such a trust early on for your work. And of course, once we started hearing back the work, uh, myself and Dale, um, were just so happy to so happy. So it's really been it's really been a treat to know you.

Manuel: [01:00:39] Yeah. Likewise. Absolutely.

Christina: [01:00:42] But thank you for saying, uh, you know, I love that Bill Murray, uh, quote. And, uh, I'm with you, too. Like, it's nice to have those moments where you're working with somebody or you're, you know, you're you're finally in this in the rehearsal room. You've worked so hard to get to this point where you're going to work and do this project live, and you're finally there, and you can kind of step back and go, okay, I'm I'm willing, I'm willing to learn here and, and do the fun stuff, too. And, um, and in part, I think, you know, there's a lot of, uh, there's a lot of tough things about choosing to live the artist's life and make a living at it and why, when I, you know, when I bitch and complain, which I don't know if you do, but I do. I do still complain. Like, why do I have to fucking do this? And this is so much work. Yeah, but the reason I keep doing it, it's for those times when I get to collaborate with somebody else, or when we're on stage doing what we love. And you just it just fuels you and allows you to go back and do the harder, the harder things. I think it's quite, uh, you learn something new, you try something new, and all of a sudden you look at yourself and you're like, I can't believe I'm doing this, and I'm having so much fun, you know?

Manuel: [01:01:54] Yeah, yeah. You never know what might be around the corner in a good way. Mm.

Christina: [01:02:01] Um, listen, I'm gonna. I've started reading my goodbye message, so I don't fuck it up. Um, because this is my. This is my time to be as sincere as possible in expressing how I feel about you. Okay. Are you ready?

Manuel: [01:02:16] Uh, I'm not sure, but go ahead.

Christina: [01:02:19] Don't worry. I'm not going to propose. Uh, okay. Good. So. Goodbye. Uh, thank you. Manny, uh, for your time today and sharing more about yourself. Dale and I had the absolute pleasure of performing with you at our show in Dachau in Germany recently, and it was a real privilege rehearsing and then performing with you. I wish we lived closer. You are really talented and for all your technical brilliance, you bring legitimate joy when performing. You can smell your love for what you do and great instincts on songs. Like Super Incredible, like improvising. I can't do that and I'm just so in awe when I see somebody. It just I was like, okay, wow, this guy's really something special, and you really do make it look like you were just born to be doing this, this thing when, when, you know, I haven't seen you in all of your, uh, and all of areas of your life, your creative life. But in terms of you at the piano, I'm like, wow, this guy, he's at home.

Manuel: [01:03:26] Mhm. Thank you so much

Christina: [01:03:28] That's my that's my goodbye.

Manuel: [01:03:29] Yeah. Yeah yeah I have to respond to it. But for one thing because yeah I, I've, I feel very humbled by your words. But you only got to see this, this uh, good version of me because the circumstances were just right. Oh. And I'm not always that that joyful in any, in any gig that I play. But in Dachau, I was. And I treasure that very much. The memory of that evening, it was just incredible because everything was right. And that is your doing as well. It's just it's not just coincidence. Thank you. Thank you for having me there. And thank you for for your words.

Song "I Don't Want to Say Goodbye To You": [01:04:23] It's love. I don't want to say goodbye to you. I don't want to say goodbye to you.

Heartbeat Hotline: [01:04:38] Welcome to the heartbeat hotline 1-902-669-4769. I'm the host of a Chat with Heart Podcast, Christina Martin, and I'm so excited you called. Leave me your question, a suggestion for the podcast or a comment about this episode. Please be aware your message may be used on the podcast and social media. Tell me your name, where you're calling from and it's also fine if you want to remain anonymous. Thanks for listening. Have a great fucking day!

Christina: [01:05:11] Thanks for listening to A Chat with Heart Podcast produced by me, Christina Martin. Co-produced and engineered by my husband Dale Murray. Dale is a stellar singer, songwriter and music producer, so check out his website dalemurray.ca. The podcast theme song 'Talk about It' and 'I Don't Want to Say Goodbye to You' were written by me and recorded by Dale. Visit my bandcamp to find a CDs, vinyl, digital music and fun merch like custom made puzzles and temporary tattoo packs. Become a monthly or yearly supporter of this podcast and my music endeavors on Patreon. If you're new to Patreon, it's a membership platform that helps creators get paid. I love it! Sign up is a free or paid member at Patreon.com/ChristinaMartin. I would love it if you had time to share rate, leave a review and subscribe to a chat with heart on all the places you listen to podcasts. Wishing you, my little heartbeat listeners, a great day.