Ian Foster - Canadian Singer-Songwriter and Filmmaker

Christina chat's with one of her funniest friends Ian Foster about the challenges in making a film, staying positive, a healthy dose of rejection, and his relation to David Foster. Ian, native of Newfoundland, Canada, is a storyteller. That music and film are the ways he tells those stories only makes the telling richer still.  Once described by CBC’s Bob Mersereau as being “a fine example of what a 21st century folk performer should be doing,” Foster continues to evolve and defy genre, as his latest forthcoming album and film project Close to the Bone (2022) illustrates.

Ian has been compared to diverse artists like Bruce Cockburn, Daniel Lanois, The War on Drugs, Josh Ritter and more, depending on the album of his that you’re listening to. Meanwhile, his film scores draw more on Sigur Ros and Olafur Arnalds textures and ambience. This is not a bug, it’s a feature: it all comes from a love of sonic exploration that has only grown as Ian’s career has moved between touring around the world and producing albums for a diverse set of artists.

Ian has toured in Canada, the U.S, Germany, The Netherlands, Austria, and Italy, and has had his music played on radio internationally. He is a MusicNL and ECMA (East Coast Music Award) winner, a finalist for the International Songwriting Competition, and has numerous co-writes to his credit, including the legendary folk songwriter Ron Hynes.

Ian performs and records both solo, and as a duo with his longtime partner Nancy Hynes, with whom he released the multi-award winning album A Week in December in 2018.

• If and When Podcast
• Film and Album: Close to the Bone

Chapters

• 0:00 Greetings from Christina
• 0:30 Theme Song - Talk About It
• 0:56 Introduction by Christina and Matt Epp
• 6:03 The proper amount of rejection and backup plans
• 12:07 Ian and journalism
• 15:28 Newfoundland and Labrador
• 17:13 Ostrich racing
• 20:02 A serious question about comedy
• 21:39 The stories between the songs
• 22:55 Purpose and storytelling
• 29:12 Ian's relation to David Foster
• 32:17 The struggle with just being yourself on stage
• 36:23 Ian's film and album: Close to the Bone
• 42:01 Challenges with filming
• 47:30 Staying positive
• 53:00 Diversification
• 55:42 Heartbeat Hotline 1(902)-669-4769
• 56:17 Podcast Credits
• 56:40 Support the Podcast on Patreon

Transcript

Ian Foster

Christina: [00:00:02] Welcome to A Chat With Heart Podcast. I'm your host, Christina Martin. I'm here to help guide heartfelt conversations with new and old friends I've met from just being alive or touring my music around North America and other parts of the world. I chat with people I feel a kinship with and that I genuinely believe we can learn from. Our personal stories have great power to heal, influence and inspire. All we have to do is show up for the conversation.

Podcast Theme Song 'Talk About It': [00:00:30] If we just talk about, we could shine a light. We can break a dark day. If we just talk about it, we can cut away, we can make a brighter day.

Christina: [00:00:55] We have a special guest introducer. For the first little blurp bburp, bburp of my podcast today. He's One of my besties, and he's been living with us for a week now. And his name, you're going to, you guys, he's been like, a he's one of the most downloaded episodes. It's not Dale. He's one of the most, he's, he's like second or third, I think second. And he's right here and I'm staring at him, so I'm just going to say his name. It's Matt Epp.

Matt: [00:01:33] Oh, oh, wait. Am I'm clapping for me. 

Christina: [00:01:36] And we're going to insert claps.

Matt: [00:01:37]  Is this me fighting to like climb the ranks?

Christina: [00:01:41] Yes.

Matt: [00:01:42] In downloaded. Yeah. 

Christina: [00:01:44] But really though people, I think it speaks to your audience that you, you know when you just made a share and people were like I want to get to know Matt Epp more and. 

Matt: [00:01:55] It's probably because I talk about you all the time and it's like, 'I want to hear what Matt talks to Christina, or Christina talks to Matt about'. Well,

Christina: [00:02:03] Well.You know what folks, you want to hear us talk more with each other, se are about to record an episode for Matt's podcast, Swimming and slurping water. That's what it's called, right?

Matt: [00:02:19] It's, it's a long title. Drinking the Water. Drinking the Water podcast has been on a hiatus. It's been a dry year.

Christina: [00:02:30] Bom, bom, bom.

Matt: [00:02:31] And what are we going to, have you ever had a guest announcer for your, for your introductions before?

Christina: [00:02:37] No, this is fun. I like this.

Matt: [00:02:38] What are we introducing? Who?

Christina: [00:02:40] Okay, well, so I have prepared a little something. Um, you would love this guest today. I hope you get to meet him someday. Maybe you already know him.

Matt: [00:02:49] Who's that?

Christina: [00:02:50] Well, hold on a second. Now. Um. Okay, so, Matt, first of all, I have the little thing prepared. Matt, you being one of my favorite people, it's appropriate that you are here.

Matt: [00:03:00] You are also the wind beneath my wings. Christina.

Christina: [00:03:04] You interrupted me here in this intro.

Matt: [00:03:07] Your own medicine.

Christina: [00:03:08] For one of my own favorite humans. You know, there are friends that you make in life that make you feel relaxed and vibrant with a particular frequency. Frequency that equals joy.

Matt: [00:03:22] Cute.

Christina: [00:03:23] Ian Foster, native of Newfoundland and Labrador, Canader. Canader.

Matt: [00:03:27] I know him.

Christina: [00:03:29] It's. Do you know Ian?

Matt: [00:03:30] Know this? Yeah, I do.

Christina: [00:03:32] How do you know Ian?

Matt: [00:03:32] Well, from going to Newfoundland. I met him a couple, I like, I remember he had this really great hook in his song the first time I heard it. It was something like when, if the weather holds.

Christina: [00:03:45] When doves fly.

Matt: [00:03:46] That was that it. Is that his tool?

Christina: [00:03:49] Maybe. No, but go ahead.

Ian: [00:03:51] If the weather holds, I think if there's a Bminor involved. I heard him play it.

Christina: [00:03:56] Don't look at me like I know every single lyric or change or minor in Ian songs.

Matt: [00:04:03] I heard some of this in advance. Some of this podcast actually, and. Here in your home. And it's a good one.

Christina: [00:04:11] He's. He's wonderful. Yeah. All right. I'll go back to my little. Oh, yeah. So he's a storyteller. Music and film are the ways he tells stories. I mean, that being said, he just opens his mouth and he's just always telling stories. He has a great podcast as well. Um, he's launched a new film with an accompanying album and it's called Close to the Bone. It's stunning. It's also a subtitled film, which is really cool. Um, so he is also one of my favorite humans, and Ian's toured all over the place Canada, the US, Germany, the Netherlands, Australia. Nope, I didn't say that. Maybe he's never been there. Austria, though. And Italy. He is a Music NL and ECMA winner, a finalist for the international songwriting competition and has numerous co-writes to his credit, including the legendary folk songwriter Ron Hynes.

Matt: [00:05:10] Oh, sweet,

Christina: [00:05:11] Yes. Ian performs and records both solo and as a duo with his long time partner, Nancy Hynes, with whom he released the multi-award winning album A Week in December. That's from 2018, and he makes me laugh. So let's get to know Ian Moore and let's say goodbye to Matt Epp for now. So join Matt Epp and I over on Drinking the Water, and check out Matt's new album. It's called Rolling Wave. Okay, Let's get to know, let's get to know Ian Foster a little more. That sounded creepy.

Ian: [00:06:03] Hey there.

Christina: [00:06:05] Hi. And thank you for your time today. That was great. It was so good. People are going to love it.

Ian: [00:06:15] I love these short episodes. Is this what, is this what TikTok is?

Christina: [00:06:21] They're so underrated. Yeah. And we. We don't even have to dance.

Ian: [00:06:26] That's amazing.

Christina: [00:06:27] Although it looks like you have a bit of a dance floor right behind you there.

Ian: [00:06:32] Yeah, that's what set it up for is, you know, this is my pivot. My pandemic pivot is dancing in front of a black background.

Christina: [00:06:42] Ian Foster, you are a hustler. You you are, though.

Ian: [00:06:48] Is this is this the first question of every podcast for you? Are you a hustler?

Christina: [00:06:53] I don't think I've ever asked anyone if they were a hustler, but I strategized it for our chat because I know that you are and I feel like we have, I feel like we have that in common, like we both have had to in some ways, like in lots of ways we've been embraced, in other ways we've probably experienced enough rejection to last us ten lifetimes. And as a result we have, because we're hustlers, we have managed to just keep going.

Ian: [00:07:25] And what what do you think is the proper level of rejection. Because I think there is a proper level. I think if you don't receive any, you're probably an asshole. And if you receive too much, you are curled up in a in a ball on the floor like there's a right amount of rejection we should all have.

Christina: [00:07:43] Well, if we want to do like a percentage, I'd say like let's say out of I'd say 60 to 70% rejection rate means you're doing like you're pretty normal, right? If it's a if it's 100%, you should probably find another. Like, I think you should give up. Give up trying for sure.

Ian: [00:08:06] And what if it's 99, and you're like, I'm just holding on to that one time someone said, Good Job.

Christina: [00:08:12] Then you should take a look at that thing that you weren't rejected for and only focused on that.

Ian: [00:08:20] I have news for you. It was dancing. That was the thing. So that's why I set up this background.

Christina: [00:08:26] Oh, I'm so proud of you. And I wish we could do a live like the viewers could, you're dancing right now. Tap. As a matter of fact, yeah.

Ian: [00:08:37] Yes, we could, we could put it in in post, some tapping, and they'll be like, guess he was dancing the whole time while he was talking. That is that is difficult. Um, it's funny, I was just on your website and speaking of hustle, I was like, 'Man, Christina, as usual, has it all together. Like you. There's so many different things happening there between the Patreon and the podcast and the tours and the songs and.

Christina: [00:08:59] Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Well, first of all, I feel like I've got nothing going on, But you probably know how that feels as well.

Ian: [00:09:06] Have you done that where someone says, What are you up to? And then you're like, Not much. And then you list the things and they're like, You just said eight things.

Christina: [00:09:14] I'm probably, I've probably been doing that for the duration of the pandemic. Yeah, but it's, because it's, you know, there's the thing that you want to be doing all the time. And then there are the other things you're interested in curious about, like maybe you're doing them just to pay the bills. Um, you know, but they, they kind of take you away from maybe that, that thing that you're like the most passionate about maybe, or like, you know, in the case of you went to my website, which is so funny because like, who's fucking interviewing who here like you're doing, did you do research for this podcast episode where I'm supposed to be interviewing you?

Ian: [00:09:55] I did. About your childhood.

Christina: [00:09:57] No, no, stop. Because we did this on your on on your podcast, If and when. Let's cut right to the chase. Like, were you bullied as a child? You know, I want to dig into trauma and pivotal life experiences.

Ian: [00:10:15] What's your backup plan? You know, just we should just do you should just have a podcast of the most infuriating musician questions. That would be hilarious.

Christina: [00:10:23] Now I want to ask you what your backup plan was, if you ever had one, because, I mean, that's funny. Yeah. Yeah, I had one.

Ian: [00:10:32] What was your backup plan?

Christina: [00:10:33] I was going to be a cruise sales specialist.

Ian: [00:10:37] A what sorry? Like a, like a cruise, like a vacation cruise specialist?

Christina: [00:10:42] Yeah. So I was going out with this guy. I was living with him and, like, I don't think he was. He was, I mean, it came up in therapy like, he was not excited about the fact that I was always broke and trying to be a musician. And I think it got the best of me. The people pleaser in me, you know, was like, okay, uh, I got to do something else. But I thought, I thought the travel industry would satisfy me. So I bought into this like, there's this franchise, you can buy packages and become like part of the the company. And so I did that, did the training, and I sold a cruise to my boyfriend, and I sold a wedding package to a couple who was divorced a year later. Those were my only two sales. Um, did you have a backup plan?

Ian: [00:11:35] I don't know about backup plan. I was thinking the other day, I was talking to a friend about professions like what you want to be when you grew up. And I had a very limited number of things. In kindergarten, I remember when they asked you that question, you had to draw what you wanted to be, and I wanted to be an ambulance driver and I couldn't spell ambulance, which you had to write on the picture because you're drawing an ambulance. And I'm like, I don't think this career is going to work out. I can't spell.

Christina: [00:12:03] Oh, man. You would have been a great ambulance driver.

Ian: [00:12:07] Right. It was crushed early. I was. I found rejection early, you know? Really. That was my first rejection. No. And then I wanted to be a marine biologist for some reason for a while. I mean, no offense to marine biologists, it's a noble profession, but I don't know where it came from. It's sort of like those early childhood things. You're like, like no one in my family was an ambulance driver. I have no idea why. I probably saw one and was like, they look cool. I probably had a little toy or something. I don't know. It's all so arbitrary at that age. And then when I got to university, I wanted to be a journalist. That was probably the first thing I put actual, like adult effort into. Like I actually did write articles for newspapers and worked at the university newspaper as the editor, the arts editor and all that stuff, you know, and interviewed. I had some pretty amazing experiences from that time. I interviewed The Moffatts, if you remember The Moffatts.

Christina: [00:12:59] I thought, at first my thought was The Muppets. So I'm not sure who The Moffatts were.

Ian: [00:13:04] But The Moffatts oh, they were like a like a boy band, like a young boy band that were hot for a minute. Like Google, Google, The Moffatts. You'll you'll find lots of stuff. And they were playing at a stadium and it was all like screaming girls. And I went in and their songs were like super pop, like teen pop. And I was like, What are your influences? I was obviously a good journalist. And they said they were like, Nirvana. And I'm like, I don't think so. I don't think it's not clear. That's not clear from the music.

Christina: [00:13:33] That was part of their press training. They're like, if this is asked, you need to say Nirvana.

Ian: [00:13:37] Yeah. Try to be cool, try to be cool. You know, don't say Menudo or whatever they actually sounded like.

Christina: [00:13:43] Like, Yeah, these are the drugs that you do on your off days.

Ian: [00:13:47] Exactly. They're like acetaminophen, you know, You're like, Really? It's just for headaches. Um, yeah, So. So that was. That was going to go to journalism school. And in my last year of university, I, I was sort of like, I just realized everything, like all the journalism I was doing, like, all the stories were just bands. I just wanted to talk to bands. I just wanted to be around musicians. I every course I did. If I could figure out a way to like, talk about music, then I did and of course was playing at the time, but was viewing it as like, this must be, you know, this is that hobby, this is that whatever. And so in my last year I was like, this is, you know, this is I actually would rather do this. I'd rather be on the other side of the microphone. I'd rather be like spending my days, like always thinking about music instead of like trying to shoehorn ways to think about it through profession, you know? So that would have probably been the backup plan had I done that, you know? And thank God I didn't, because even at that age, I think I was like, How much do journalists make? Oh, really? I could probably make that playing in bars, for God's sakes.

Christina: [00:14:50] Jeez. Yeah, well, I mean, it's all it was all good training for. For your career. I mean, because I'm sure you've had times, I shouldn't assume, but I know I have. Where, like, you're doing your own press releases, you're. You have to write a lot of things. You're writing grants and now you've got your own podcast, too. And and I think you're a wonderful host and.

Ian: [00:15:11] Oh, my. Well, thank you. You know, I've only done the one season and it's now been a few years, which is crazy to think, but that's, that's sort of, I was gearing up for another season, the pandemic hit and everything just sort of, you know, did the thing that it does, you know. So I've just started thinking about it again, you know?

Christina: [00:15:28] Oh, yeah, you can always go back to it. Anyway, back to trauma. No. So you grew up, you're from Newfoundland and Labrador.

Ian: [00:15:36] I am from Newfoundland.

Christina: [00:15:37] Oh, sorry. So what's with the. So is it bad if I don't say and Labrador?

Ian: [00:15:43] Yeah, you're actually. You'll receive a letter in the mail.

Christina: [00:15:45] Okay. Um. Yeah. Gotcha. When you were growing up, was it Newfoundland and Labrador?

Ian: [00:15:51] Uh, yes, it is. Um, it was.

Christina: [00:15:57] It will be like at one point in school, were you, like, slapped on the wrist with a ruler? If you. What?

Ian: [00:16:03] No, not really. Not really. I mean, Labrador was discussed, of course. You know.

Christina: [00:16:09] Have you ever. Have you ever even been there? Like, does it, it's real?

Ian: [00:16:12] I actually have I've been there twice so far. And I went there with the Creative Arts Festival, which was this great multidisciplinary festival where it was just like a chance to see little communities. I went to Sheshatshiu and Northwest River and Black Tickle and like all these places that like even if you travel there recreationally, you probably wouldn't go to at least a couple of those. So it was like, you know, one of those things that I know you've experienced, like when you go somewhere for music and there's like a purpose to going to a particular town. Like you end up going to places that no tourist would ever go to.

Christina: [00:16:46] Yeah, like Yarmouth, Nova Scotia. Nah, it's just, it's sort of out of the way. Doesn't cost quite as much to get there, as it does for you to get to.

Ian: [00:16:55] I don't know if you knew this. My dad is from Nova Scotia, so I've spent all my summers going up the Annapolis Valley. He's from just outside of Greenwood. He grew up on a farm there.

Christina: [00:17:05] Well, that's a, it's just a lovely, lovely part of our province. Yeah, That's where everyone goes to pick apples, drink wine.

Ian: [00:17:13] Yes. I once raced an ostrich at Oaklawn Zoo.

Christina: [00:17:18] I was going to ask. That was one of my questions. Have you ever spent time with. With an ostrich? So you're saying that there's a hobby farm somewhere where people ride ostriches?

Ian: [00:17:30] No, no, it was a zoo, I guess. I don't. I guess it may not be open anymore. I don't know. I was obviously quite young. 27. Kidding. Um, but, like, I, I was a little kid, and I was there for summer vacation, and there was an ostrich, and this is all, of course, like, I was young enough that I don't really remember this. So this is all recounted through my parents storytelling to me. So, you know, this could be a disinformation or misinformation. You know, I know you don't want to spread that on your podcast, but.

Christina: [00:18:03] No, it's okay. It's all right. Okay.

Ian: [00:18:05] Yeah. I know how vigilant the ostrich community can be.

Christina: [00:18:09] So I'm gonna. This is where I'm going to start getting trolled online. Not you. Me, because.

Ian: [00:18:16] Yeah. Oh, I understand. Because they're going to be, like, again with the ostrich misinformation, you know, again. Um, yeah. So. So when I was a kid, I. There was an ostrich there and I looked at it through the fence and I was sort of like just sizing him up. And then I went to walk away and he sort of mirrored my steps. And then I was like, stopped. And he stopped. And I looked at him and then I, like, walked a few more paces and he, like, he kept walking pace with me. And then I, like, started into a brisk walk. And then he started into a brisk walk. And then I started into like an all out run. And again, the way my parents tell the story, like people stopped what they were doing to turn to watch this like, Spielberg esque moment of this like man versus beast, of this little child running on one side of the fence and this ostrich like easily, easily keeping up pace on the other side, just slightly ahead of me, like just ahead. And then when we finished the race at the other end, he did this little dance like, See, I beat you. That is so cute. It was cute. I was devastated. Further rejection early in life that I was, like, lost to this ostrich, you know?

Christina: [00:19:22] Oh, now, this is. I wish that we had cell phones back then. And your parents were just, like, filming everything. And you could have been a child star.

Ian: [00:19:31] Exactly. And we'd be on this now, and you'd be like, uh, welcome, Ostrich man. Yeah. Ian Foster. And I'd be like, I'm also a musician, you know, And I just spend the rest of my life saying, I'm also a musician world.

Ian: [00:19:47] Is this is going well.

Christina: [00:19:49] That would be your trauma. That would be your trauma. And that's what we focus on on A Chat with Heart Podcast.

Ian: [00:19:56] And I'd say things like, I just want to bury my head in the sand and you try not to laugh.

Christina: [00:20:02] Yeah. I, this is a serious question. All right.

Ian: [00:20:09] Okay.

Christina: [00:20:09] Have you ever considered stand up comedy? Because I do find that you are one of the funniest people that I've ever met.

Ian: [00:20:19] Wow. Ever met?

Christina: [00:20:21] I think so. I just think you're really like, I mean, don't get too big headed here, but, like, you know, a lot of words. You're really quick witted. Um. And you just have a remarkable memory for things. And I just I don't know if those things work with comedy, but I just find you funny and I just could see you doing a great standup act, at least.

Ian: [00:20:49] Can I just say, and I don't want to sound egotistical here, I've. I've. I've won awards, I have accolades. But you saying, 'you know a lot of words' might be the greatest compliment anyone's ever given me. That's such a beautiful sentiment. I'm not really sure what that means in relation to comedy, but I do like that.

Christina: [00:21:08] You probably, well, I just. I just find that it's handy to know words, to be able to speak English really well.

Ian: [00:21:17] Yes, I believe I believe Nietzsche said that it's handy to know a lot of words.

Christina: [00:21:23] Yeah. And I just think if you if you did need another plan B, um, then that's one one place, one direction you could go. And, uh. Yeah, I don't know. I just thought you'd be great at it.

Ian: [00:21:39] Oh, that's sweet. That's sweet. Yeah. Mean, I love comedy so much. Like, I listen to, like, I would say at this point, like, of the podcasts I listen to, Um, other than this one, of course, like, it's, it's a lot of comedy. I'm, I'm, I love comedy podcasts and, and comedians and stuff. Um, I do I do not think I am a comedian in terms of a professional sense, but, um, yeah, I, I, I definitely, um. Years ago, actually, I remember hearing Jann Arden talk about this, and, you know, people have talked about her telling jokes on stage, and she was like, I'm just trying to balance out all my sad songs. And I'm like, I totally relate. It's like, because you're you are the same. You're quite funny on stage. And, uh, and I was going to ask you kind of a similar question of like, uh, because I almost feel like that's part of the dynamic of the show at this point for me. Like the stories, like I'm not up there telling, you know, one liners or anything like that. It's just like the stories, you know, I do have beats in the show that are funnier. And I'm like, Yeah, because I have a lot of sad ballads and sad songs. And it's like, you know, it's sort of like that's the version of taking the show up and down, you know, that you need to have to put together a show. It should make you laugh and cry to, you know, as the cliche goes.

Christina: [00:22:55] Yeah, tension release for sure. Okay. So I know why I have songs like that. Um, but I mean, we've talked about a lot of things in, in the past and I mean. I guess I don't know that much about you that I would think you've had a traumatic background growing up or anything. Maybe you have. And this is what we're going to get at here. But like, why do you think you're drawn to writing song that are, let's say, more melancholy or sad or touching?

Ian: [00:23:30] Uh, simply put, tears give me strength. I've thought about this at different times, I guess, over the years because, uh, probably a broader question or a broader subject. We every musician I know thinks about his purpose, right? Like when we're in the arts. I mean, you know, it's a very strange profession to ultimately be saying, What do you think of my soul? Every time you put something out to the world, like that's, you know, that's been the problem or the challenge, I should say. Excuse me, since the beginning of, of, I suppose any artist releasing anything is that, you know, it's so much you're leaving yourself so vulnerable and open a lot. Um, and so recently I heard Springsteen say something that I thought was really beautiful. He was talking about, uh, uh, being a fraud. He was saying like, you know, I'm this blue collar, like, voice of the blue collar worker, you know, that's kind of the reputation. But he's like, I never worked a job like that in my life, you know? But then he said, My dad did, though. And he's like, I've just realized, like, I'm kind of an agent for my father, you know, like that. He worked all these jobs and had this life and he wasn't going to ever tell those stories in a broader context.

Ian: [00:24:44] Like he, his life would ultimately go, you know, sort of, uh, unnoticed in that bigger sense, the way that, I guess many, most lives do. You know, most any life not lived in the public eye, you know, is, is obviously private. So, um, I thought that was a really beautiful way to talk about, you know, telling stories for those who don't have the voice to tell them or, you know, a story that whether that's like a really personal, like family story or even a story that, um, you're told by someone else, like for, for years, especially when I was touring really heavily, I was like, it's almost like a weird form of organic machine. You know, you'd write songs, you put them on a record, you go out and you tour and you would inevitably have all these very profound and cathartic experiences because you'd be in new places and meeting new people. And sometimes it'd be places where it's not, you know, people are speaking to you in their second language and there's sort of a mystery and there's those barriers and you want to break them down and and you'd have these really wonderful moments and perspectives that you wouldn't have gotten otherwise.

Ian: [00:25:46] And then someone tells you an amazing story and then you, you know, that connects with you and you write a song about it, and then you put it on another record and then the process begins again, you know? Um, so for me that, uh, um, I suppose like, uh, that that's always felt special to me as a reason to do it, you know, it's not, it's not just like trying to write a pop hit or something. It's trying to, like, tell a story that connected with me and then therefore may connect with someone else. And really it's about, you know, connection and communication. I mean, all of it is this stuff is what we're doing right now. Like, it's why I did a podcast was like a chance to talk to people that I'd had chats with before. In my case, that's season one anyway. It was like people that I had had already had those kind of conversations where it was like, Yeah, it's too bad we weren't rolling a microphone. This is a really great chat, like that thing you say. And then, you know, obviously writing songs and touring and, you know, it's all it all feeds back to that conversation, that connection.

Christina: [00:26:48] You know, I've read a lot of your press that says, you know, he's a good storyteller, storyteller, this storyteller, that blah, blah, blah storyteller. Uh, so answer this.

Ian: [00:27:03] Man with guitar just didn't fly.

Christina: [00:27:05] So well. How did, So what? Well, first, I want you to think about what you think makes you a good storyteller. Was there a storytelling in your family? And I know it's a big part of I think, I think the Newfoundland and Labrador culture. Go!

Ian: [00:27:23] Yeah, it's.

Christina: [00:27:26] I got to go, I got to go get some coffee.

Ian: [00:27:28] All right. Sounds good.

Christina: [00:27:29] You go ahead. And, yeah.

Ian: [00:27:30] You can listen back later, see if it was any good. Um, yeah, I mean, obviously, it's. It's hard to self-analyze that way sometimes. Um, because I think it. It's not even about, like, modesty or anything else or like. Or or lack thereof. It's just like, uh, I think the process of learning how to do that just happens. Like, everything you just said probably is is true. Like all those things, like it's not an or it's like, you know, the culture you come out of and, you know, years of doing it like it happens so organically and so slowly over time. Like I would say to any artist coming from, uh, I guess any town, even a bigger town, because you'll still, if you've grown up there, you'll still have your circles. Like I think going on the road was very important to me early on, you know, And my first tour was in Nova Scotia like in 2000, I want to say 2007. Um, and I, I just remember playing at the, uh, the Spitfire Arms Ale house in Windsor, Nova Scotia, and uh, and definitely no one giving a shit that I was there. And I remember being like, good, like, it felt, it felt good in a weird sort of way because I, I think I realized right from the start that, um, when you're from any kind of small place and people love to talk about like, Oh, you're from a really music oriented city and it's like, yeah, but if you're not like ingrained in the music community, which I wasn't from the beginning, like I didn't come from a, like a musical royalty family or anything in Newfoundland or like have like family members or friends who were like successful gigging musicians or anything. It was literally me going,

Christina: [00:29:12] Wait a minute. Whoa, whoa. Whoa, whoa. The only reason we're doing this is because I thought you were related to David Foster.

Ian: [00:29:18] Well, I am. I'm talking about Newfoundland. I didn't tell anyone that because I didn't want to be judged differently. But I actually wrote Because You Loved Me, the Celine Dion song. Like, I didn't want to say, it's paid for all this, all this.

Christina: [00:29:32] That's what I thought. And that's really all I needed to hear.

Ian: [00:29:35] Do you know that I have had like at least ten times had people at shows, and they would be like cafe shows, like in some random town, who would go, Are you related to David Foster? And I just want to go, 'Do you think I would be here if I was related to David Foster?'

Christina: [00:29:50] I probably would. Yeah. No, that's, that doesn't surprise me. I mean, you know, I've got the Ricky Martin thing a lot, too.

Ian: [00:29:59] Oh, my. Are you serious?

Christina: [00:30:00] No, but that would be funny. Uh.

Ian: [00:30:03] That would be. And you'd be like, Yeah, I'm doing these shows to try to break out on my own from under the Ricky Martin impressive umbrella.

Christina: [00:30:09] Exactly. Yeah.

Ian: [00:30:11] Um, but yeah, so I think for me, um, like I just realized early on that it was important to, um, really understand whether you're any good or not by going on the road and playing for strangers, right? Like just to, because, you know, if you play like when you're at home, you know this, it's like, you know, your aunt is going to come out or your cousins are going to be there and your friends from high school and they're probably going to be the people talking the loudest because they know you so well and you're just Ian or Christina up there on stage and it's like it just feels like a really different kind of show when you're starting out, you know, and and you're connected somehow to everybody in the audience. So you have no understanding of like, what is going to really work. Like what? What is the best song in your set? Like, what is the best moment that really gets everybody? Like, the only way to know that is to just go out and be on the road and play for strangers night after night and be like, after a while you're like, Shit, this song works everywhere. Wow.

Ian: [00:31:11] There must be something to that, you know? And I think like, so that's a very long tangent to answer your question, to say like, just like I did that with songs like I felt like. Talking to the audience, which is really hard at first. It's not like I was over at Spitfire Arms Ale House regaling people with stories. I was like playing songs, hoping no one throw a bottle at me, you know? So it's like for me, it was it was it was just getting more comfortable and then realizing, like, how powerful that could be. And you could win over you can win over strangers like a lot easier with stories like, you know this too, if you're playing venues where like, no one knows any of your songs. Hey guys, get ready for the next 45 minutes. You know, like you don't expect to sing along, though, you know, because you don't know the songs yet, you know? So those stories would often be like, I think it's like throwing an anchor to the audience to be like, All right, we're here together. We're having an experience. Like, Come with me, you'll hear the story, and then I'll play the song. And, you know, you'll you'll probably even remember the song via the story. It'll be like, what was that one about? You know? And they'll mention the story somehow.

Christina: [00:32:17] Yeah. You know, I don't think I thought about it for myself, how I develop that. And so listening to your I mean, it was it was the exact same thing. And there was also, you know, the fact that I have never had any hits. People don't know what my songs are about. And and especially in listening rooms or even in Europe, um, they would like I find that they're quicker to connect to the song if there's a little bit of sharing before and I mean, say whatever you want, like, Oh, a song shouldn't need that. But I think it's helped. And people have said after, I'm glad you shared that story. Or maybe sometimes it's a funny story, sometimes it's just, you know, it's like that mix of of humor and sometimes seriousness and and where people just, I think are really appreciate seeing somebody be themselves on stage because that is hard. And ultimately, I think that's one of the, um, the coolest things in our lives is when you can just be yourself.

Ian: [00:33:23] And I'm so glad you said that because that is. 

Christina: [00:33:27] You're welcome. Merry Christmas.

Ian: [00:33:29] I didn't say thanks. I said I was glad you said.

Christina: [00:33:33] And happy birthday.

Ian: [00:33:35] Merry Christmas. Um,

Christina: [00:33:37] Well it's been a while since I've given you a gift, and I just.

Christina: [00:33:40] That's true. My knowledge is gift enough. Yeah. Yeah. Um, no, but it's such a good point. Like, I don't think people think enough about that. Like how the machinations we all go through, like the labyrinths we go through to just be yourself on stage and you even think you are at first, right? You're like, I'm going to be me. And then you're up there and you're like, How y'all doing tonight? And it just, you know, razzle dazzle. It's like horrible.

Christina: [00:34:05] I give myself pep talks like, during the song, like, Fuck, calm the fuck down, Chill. When this song ends, you better be yourself again. Like, whatever happened there between the last song, that was not you, calm the fuck down. These people are not interested in a fake, like, and then I forget the lyrics of the songs because I'm not being present.

Ian: [00:34:28] Do you? Do you? I have to change up stories. Like I think maybe again, back to the listening to a lot of standups, like I relate to standups, even though I'm a musician, because I, I feel like with the stories between the songs, like you kind of have to do similar like comedic things, even if the story is not funny. It's not about it being like comedy. It's about like it could be a very heartfelt story that you're used to telling, but you have to do something different with it for yourself because it just starts to become like stale. You just feel like, yeah, you're doing a recitation instead of like a connection, you know?

Christina: [00:35:02] Yeah. And you know, I can. I can make something sound a story, sound fresh if I know I don't know anybody in the audience. It's a brand new market, brand new town, and I somehow can take myself back to, like, as if I've just told the story for the first time. It sort of feels like, it's weird because I've never tried to explain this, but it's like I am acting and playing a part, but I'm also tapping, I guess I'm not an actress, but, oh fuck, maybe I am. Maybe that's my plan B. No.

Ian: [00:35:40] That's really tough. I mean, from my side of, uh, you know, directing shorts and stuff. You know, it's like I've said to actor friends of mine, like, I'm like, I. I'm really glad you do what you do. I would never, ever want to do it. I love I love, uh, films, obviously. I love working in that medium. I love actors, I love chatting with them and, you know, all that stuff and of course working with them from a directorial standpoint. But I'm like, I just it is so, uh, talk about that machination of what we're talking about, of like how to go through all the pathways you have to, to then be natural, you know, And there's tons of psychology around that, you know.

Christina: [00:36:23] Well, you brought it up film because this is another thing you excel at. I mean an I mean, let's get it out of the way. You're here to promote Close to the Bone, a new album too, and single coming out. Let's just get this out of the fucking way. Like just come on. 

Ian: [00:36:41] You know, your enthusiasm is making me want to open up.

Christina: [00:36:44] I know. I watched. I was privy to being one of the early viewers of Close to the Bone and getting to hear the music. And it was so stunning. And I booked a meeting with you because I wanted to pick your brain about the process. And I just, you know, your work, this isn't the only film you've done. But, you know, I think your work is stunning. But I'd love for you to just tell us about the project and what we can expect, what's coming up and what you're excited about. 

Ian: [00:37:18] I've I've made a couple of films since, I guess in the last ten years I kind of have started this other, um, parallel career in film. And it came about through composing for film other people's films and getting to see films in different stages of undress. You know, when you're a composer, you're seeing stuff, you know, definitely Pre-colored but like also pre like some, you know, especially in the indie world, sometimes it's not even the final edit, you know, of the film. So, you know, through composing I direct it ended up directing my first film, you know, just total indie, you know, cost the cost of buying food for everybody, like, you know, hiring friends who weren't even actors, you know, like the thing you're really supposed to do that every like, that is legit what you should do because like, you don't know anything. So you might as well get other people who don't know anything and you can all not know stuff together. 

Christina: [00:38:09] You can be confident in you're not knowingness.

Ian: [00:38:12] Exactly. A lot of equality on that set. No one knows anything, you know. Um,

Christina: [00:38:17] And there's something there's, there's something really, I think, freeing about that, though, that, you know, because maybe it's not that people are not, people are working extra hard, but they're doing it for all the right reasons. And I don't know, I just I like that place to work in that state of mind of like, totally. We got nothing to lose.

Ian: [00:38:40] Oh, my God. It was. It's like being in a garage band, right? It's the same. It's just me and my friends jamming in the garage. See if we can get a gig. You know, like, it's sort of like that part of the process, you know? Um, so. So, yeah, So I made that film and it did some stuff. And then I made another film with a program called Picture Start, which is a provincial program here in Newfoundland that gives you like a scaled up budget to make a short, which is really great because it's a learning program. So you actually learn all the roles and you know how it all works and go through the whole process, you know, as if it's a real film, quote unquote, you know? And of course it is. And, and so that did some more stuff. And I'd done some music videos over the years. And then really like all of that sort of led to Close to the Bone, which is like me trying to meld those two worlds of like music and film, you know? So instead of being a musician, making a film or, you know, whatever, a filmmaker who puts some of his music in a film, you know, this this was truly like the it's Close to the Bone, the film and album like it's the the the album has 12 tracks. Five of them plus like stems from other tracks are the soundtrack and the principal, really the storyteller. I mean, the film is, is a subtitled film. You know, there's no there's no actual dialogue in the film. The music helps to tell the story, but it is still a narrative story. It's not just a series of music videos. It's not it's not fully esoteric in nature, you know what I mean? It has a plot, for lack of a better term. Um, so, so yeah, that was, that was a really, uh, I guess, ambitious thing perhaps, you know, to do. Some might say foolhardy, but it was, uh, uh.

Christina: [00:40:18] Sometimes you just got to, just got to reach.

Ian: [00:40:21] You got to go for it.

Christina: [00:40:22] I think you nailed it. But also you incorporated movement, um, dance in this. I mean, it was I thought it was just brilliantly, um, you know, woven together. I'm really excited for people to see it and for what it means for your future work, too, in in film and composition. So congratulations.

Ian: [00:40:46] Well, thanks. Yeah, I'm excited for people to see it too. And I think the approach musically was really to try different stuff for me. Like there's there's almost no acoustic guitar on this album. I didn't write the songs that way. I wrote them like at the console or like the, you know, the keyboard or, you know, just being willing to go with like temp lyrics, which I'd never tried before. Like just, you know, as the this, the, the, the storyteller or whatever, you're like, no, I'm just going to go with like, I'm just going to try something here, like put something here for now and see like, just, just let it be in pieces for a little bit, see what happens. Like it was just a really fun way to, to write. And I think it was really like a psychological game because I think this record in many ways is one of my well, if not my most personal record, you know. And so I think there's a little bit of that thing you do where you're like, I'm going to kind of take the pressure off. I'm going to be like, I'm just going to try this and and really convince yourself. Like, I really was convinced. I was just like trying that. And then that sort of lets you get more personal, right? You start, you know, you get out of patterns. You're not, you know, you're not, you're, there's no expectations. And therefore you end up with something more interesting, perhaps in the end.

Christina: [00:42:01] Can you tell us some like some some gossip about like, let's say your biggest challenge was there like a a moment where you're like. One was broke down or you're just really frustrated in making Close to the Bone. What was it all just a walk in the park?

Ian: [00:42:20] Oh, it was super easy. No challenges at all. And maybe if your listeners are struggling, they should just try to be more like me. Like that was, yeah, a good idea for them. That's my advice. You can check out my self-help pamphlet because it's not very long because it just says that.

Christina: [00:42:36] And you could join your fan club. The foster children.

Ian: [00:42:40] Foster children? Yeah. Yep. I love this is audio, so there's no visual cues and people are like, Wow, what an asshole. Jesus, why would she even have him on? Um. Uh. So sounds like more like a chat without heart. Am I right? Um, yeah. So it was a long process. I mean, that's the thing with film. I mean, we musicians love to complain about like, oh, man, it can be hard when you're trying to wrangle all these musicians together in studio or like, how long it takes to make a record. I mean, film is like, Hold my beer, you know? It's like, Yeah, it'd be years to make a film. Like if you're trying to scare up funding, you know, because it's very expensive. It's because of how collaborative it is. I mean, film to have like 30 people around is a small crew, you know, versus like a band and a producer and an engineer and studio is like pretty packed these days, you know? So, um, so that, that was, that's interesting. And of course it's also the actual filming is so like tip of the iceberg, you know, because like the we shot the film in three days, you know, it's a 22 minute film. And we were able to do that because of the like we had a lot of gimmes in the film. I would say, you know what I mean by that is like, because we weren't recording sound right, Um, because we didn't need to, because it was, you know, the way you had that, you know. Yeah. With music, the nature of the sets and how some of the images like there's, it's all about cycles of an intergenerational family story.

Ian: [00:44:13] So there's like revisiting of sections. Like there was a lot of, like just from the logistical standpoint of that, yeah, it's like there's problems and then there's like, there's pros and cons to any shoot, you know? And it's like for us, those were some of the pros because you can move faster without having a sound recordist there. Like for every single scene and things like that. We didn't have to slate everything because I was editing the film, so I already knew where things needed to go. So there was like a fluidity there. So there was a lot of advantages. And of course, like the disadvantages were really just about, um, uh, you know, trying to patchwork together the budget to make it happen, you know, um, and rewrites and trying to figure out because this is working in kind of a weird medium, like there's not a ton of precedence for this. Like, there's lots of visual albums say. But very quickly we were like, Well, I don't think this is a visual album. Like this is not Pink Floyd's The Wall, you know, it's not like animation meets whatever, you know, it's like it's not that. Um, and we'd watched a whole bunch of similar projects and definitely had inspirations for it, but it wasn't quite like any of those either. So it was, it was sort of like trying to figure out like what would work. And then, you know so.

Christina: [00:45:25] What is the what do we call it? How do we pitch it. 

Ian: [00:45:29] Exactly right. And part of that, like it was being written while you're applying for funding because of the nature of funding and how far out it is so, so much, by the time you even get to day one, you know, it's it's again, like with the music metaphors, it's like those shows that are like you drove six hours, you got there, the PR wasn't set up, you set it up, you did your soundcheck. By the time you're about to actually do the thing, you're like, Can I just go home?

Christina: [00:45:53] I'm really tired. Yeah. Can I just not maybe I don't want to do this after all.

Ian: [00:45:57] Yeah. I've put in the full day already and haven't even done the job yet. You know, I'm very quick to tell people it's not a pandemic album too, because I'm like, How quickly? Watch. Now you're going to be like, I have an album coming out called Pandemic, but like, it's, you know, I feel like we're already like, if someone's like, Would you like to relive the despair of the COVID times? I'm like, Can we give it a couple of decades so I can look back on.

Christina: [00:46:20] Oh, I have. I mean, I put out a song that I wrote before the pandemic that talks about wearing masks because I was it was just something I was starting to wear masks on planes because I was just afraid to catch a cold because I was I was catching a cold on tour. And it was a song about fear and overcoming fear and yeah, blah blah, blah. But like, yeah, there's that. If you've put out anything during the pandemic, it must be about the pandemic.

Ian: [00:46:49] Or just like people being like, it's so lonely and the walls are closing in and stuff. I'm like, okay, we all, we all know we lived it. We all just went through it. And it's there's no audience for this. This is the only like mono event that everyone in the world experienced, like we all like. We're relate to it, but like, let's have the Jazz Age now. We just got through the 1918 pandemic. Now it's time for the jazz age of the 20s. So we need something different. But, um, yeah, so I mean, this album started pre pandemic, so there were so many delays, like with my co-producer who lives in Toronto and uh, you know, there were so many delays that like mix engineer said something. He was like, you know, when you have to put the year at the end of the mix, you know, the album is taking a long time.

Christina: [00:47:30] Well, how do you stay positive? You know, in a way, I think.

Ian: [00:47:34] It's quite clear I don't think it's it's.

Christina: [00:47:37] If you listen to Close to the Bone, you will right away know that this is not a man who has any ounce of optimism.

Ian: [00:47:47] That's it.

Christina: [00:47:48] Or hope.

Ian: [00:47:50] For me. I will say that, um. Uh. There was definitely some fascinating sort of processes that came out of the pandemic for me. Early on I remember. Sort of like I had I had a a tour I just did that was originally slated for March 2020. I just did it in the fall of 2022. So it was, you know, years. Yeah, two and a half years later, I got to do this tour finally. But it was like the first week of the pandemic was when that tour was supposed to start. So I was an early pandemic adopter of life stopping, you know. And in the months that followed, I just remember working on Close to the Bone and I remember, um, I remember just waking up in the morning being like, Yep, there's this virus. And of course we all thought we were going to die for at least the first few months, you know, this is this is not great. And then you'd read the paper, you'd be like, okay, fascism is on the rise. All right, some more good news, you know? And then I'd be like, uh, time to go downstairs and tweak some synths, I guess, you know? And I was like, Is this like a monk, like, meditative thing for me? Like, I guess it was a really interesting moment for someone who'd been doing this line of work for you know, I guess somewhere between 15 and 20 years at this point, professionally and, and just being like, I still like this or I still feel I have to do it for some reason because there's certainly no good reason, having read the daily paper and looking at where the world was at and having no idea if and when music was going to come back, like how that was going to going to work and still feeling the need to go work on something.

Ian: [00:49:31] You know that like it's not like I had any plan for putting that record, this record out when that was all going on. Um, and so I was like, Yeah, I still love this. Like, despite how challenging it can be day to day and despite all the external factors that we have no control over, but still may sabotage a tour or a whole year or years of your professional career or whatever. Like at its core, I still I still just, you know, want to fool around with sounds and make stuff, you know? And that was that was kind of affirming. That was, you know, it was a pretty desperate way to find out. But it was still quite affirming. And I think one of the ways we connect is that we are similar that way. We have a lot of interests and and the the the ability in some cases to at least pursue them and hopefully excel at them, you know, and, and if the interests are, um, like I've been, I'll speak for myself, like I've been very lucky in that I really love just being in the studio.

Ian: [00:50:30] It doesn't have to be all about me, right? And so therefore, like being a producer for other people scratches an itch. Like that's not like, well, time to go make some money, I guess, to try to support the other thing. Like, that's not how it works for me. Like, I'm like, This is fun. I can't believe I got paid to do this. Like it's one of those jobs kind of thing. And, and it luckily like that comes honestly. But a benefit of it is that it obviously feeds back into what I do naturally anyway, right? Like you're the every record you work on, you just learn new things. It doesn't you learn new things on your own record, but you also learn things working on someone else's record, even if that's like a different approach to a song or like you're, you're tasked with like, we're looking for this sound. So you're delving into like an 80 seconds synth sound maybe for the first time. And then you're learning about that. And again, it's like you're paid to learn that, you know, you're paid to to be there and experience that which is like a dream, you know? That's so cool, you know? So and then the same with film.

Ian: [00:51:33] I mean, like, you know, for me that's just a, um, uh, like compositionally, like that's very much like a, like a service in that same way as a producer, Like you're, you're hired to score a film. You know, the films I'm making are like passion projects, Like they're, they're indie films, you know, I'm making very little, if any, money. Sometimes I'm losing money, you know, on trying to promote it or whatever. But again, it feeds back into my experiences to then be hired to make somebody else's music video or whatever. So it's like there's so many parts. It's of course, not just about the money, you know, like that's the thing. It's, it's like the holistic view of like, is this all stuff that excites me and can I find a way to make it all work in the capitalist world we live in? Because it is somewhat about money, you know? So it's like, how do I keep making a living and get to explore all these things? And when it's going well and by going well, I just mean getting to do it really. Like it's great when your album is reviewed well or your film does something cool. Like that's obviously great. But like when you're having that experience, like there's nothing that feels kind of better than that where you're like, Wow, I'm getting to wake up this week and do three different things. Most people go to the same office like 9 to 5, you know? So like that is the you know, that's the real answer to your question, like 25 minutes ago about how do you remain optimistic? I guess it's like trying to trying to look at it that way, right? It's like, uh, and when that's working, it's it's great.

Ian: [00:53:00] And it also, I think diversification also fights off the more dramatic sings in one's artistic career because, let's face it, like there's going to be peaks and valleys, right? So if you were just a touring singer songwriter, that's all you did. I mean, March 2020 would have been a lot worse for me had that been literally the only thing that I did versus like I did some remote production for people. I did some composing for film. I did other things during the pandemic, you know, it was still a drastic reduction in work, but it was still like some stuff happened. Like I had friends and I'm sure you did too. It was like. My God. Like, what are we, uh, you know, what are we going to do? Like. You literally have nothing in your life anymore because, as you know, you could. The people we know that are road dogs, like, that's the only thing they do. You know, their whole life is structured around that. So that's a lot a lot of people in therapy, I think, as a result of that.

Christina: [00:53:58] Yeah, yeah. A lot of people had to, you know, quit entirely and get other careers and just, yeah, shut her down and maybe never returned, sadly. I mean, this is really going downhill. Um, it's really dark down. Depressing. But not us. No, no, no, no. We survived. Uh, but I've had to have. I've had, I've taken, um, you know, part time jobs that because I needed the financial security, you know, to, uh, and something that I very much feared and was overworking and maybe even doing some gigs that I would have liked to have. They just maybe weren't right for me. I would have loved to have just said, No, thank you, but I couldn't because of my fear of not being able to pay the bills and going bankrupt and eventually going to prison. That's my thought. That's my thought process of that. Just that comes from my my childhood trauma. That's another episode.

Ian: [00:55:04] I think that would be. Imagine if you picked up the paper one day and it was like, 'songwriter fails and goes to prison. I'm like, Wow, now that is a level of it not going well that is more than I would have expected.

Song 'I Don't Want to Say Goodbye To You': [00:55:29] It's love, I don't want to say goodbye. I don't want to say goodbye to you.

Heartbeat Hotline: [00:55:44] Welcome to the Heartbeat Hotline. 1-902-669-4769. I'm the host of A Chat with Heart Podcast, Christina Martin, and I'm so excited you called. Leave me your question, suggestion for the podcast, or a comment about this episode. Please be aware your message may be used on the podcast and social media. Tell me your name, where you're calling from, and it's also fine if you want to remain anonymous. Thanks for listening. Have a great fucking day.

Christina: [00:56:18] Thanks for listening to A Chat with Heart podcast, produced and written by me, Christina Martin and co-produced and engineered by Dale Murray. Check out Dale's website dalemurray.ca. The podcast theme song. 'Talk About It' and 'I Don't Want to Say Goodbye to You' were written by me and recorded by Dale Murray. You can find my music on Bandcamp and all the places you stream music. Visit my Patreon page to become a monthly or yearly supporter of this podcast and my music endeavors. If you're new to Patreon, it's a membership platform that helps creators get paid. Sign up at patreon.com/ChristinaMartin. I would love it if you had time to share, rate, leave a review and subscribe to A Chat with Heart on all the places you listen to podcasts. Wishing you my little heart beats a great day.