Anne Bérubé - Spiritual Teacher

Christina chats with Anne Bérubé , a spiritual teacher who has made her life’s purpose about helping individuals remember the happiness within them.

Anne has written and published two fantastic books:  Be Feel Think Do, and The Burnout Antidote. Check out her website anneberube.com Embodied Spirituality, where you will find links to her virtual and in-person retreats, her podcast Embodied, and her books. 

Anne also has a plethora of education under her belt, including, no biggie, a PhD.  Her work has also allowed her to share the stage with many of her heroes, including bestselling authors Wayne Dyer, Deepak Chopra.

• Official Website: anneberube.com
• Podcast and Books: anneberube.com/podcast-books

Chapters

• 0:00 Greetings from Christina
• 0:30 Theme Song - Talk About It
• 0:56 Introduction by Christina
• 8:30 Living in the image of oneself
• 13:12 Anne's near death experience and awakening
• 14:58 Getting to know yourself
• 20:23 Mental illness and forgetting who you are
• 24:22 Trusting your gut
• 27:15 Failing and getting to the gold
• 29:19 Safety
• 30:15 Burnout
• 42:50 Cults
• 46:38 Loving others and yourself, finding your story
• 48:39 Embodied vs. disembodied empathy
• 53:02 Anne's retreats
• 56:14 Sharing your story
• 1:02:10 Making room for more play and joy
• 1:06:22 Heartbeat Hotline 1(902)-669-4769
• 1:07:02 Podcast Credits
• 1:07:27 Support the Podcast on Patreon

Transcript

ANNE BERUBE 

Christina: [00:00:02] Welcome to A Chat with Heart Podcast. I'm your host, Christina martin. I'm here to help guide heartfelt conversations with new and old friends I've met from just being alive or touring my music around North America and other parts of the world. I chat with people I feel a kinship with and that I genuinely believe we can learn from. Our personal stories have great power to heal, influence and inspire. All we have to do is show up for the conversation.

Podcast Theme Song 'Talk About It': [00:00:32] If we just talk about it, we could shine a light. We can break a dark day. If we just talk about it, we can cut a way, we can make a brighter day.

Christina: [00:00:56] Hello. So I have this Hotline you can call. Anyone can call it, any age. It's called the Heartbeat Hotline. You can ask me anything you want and I'll answer it on the podcast. But since I'm paying money for it monthly, I really want to make use of it. So I have a question for you, my Heartbeat listeners. Remember episode one of season one? My special guest was my best friend, Dale Murray. To this date, he has been the most downloaded episode. So this leads me to consider the fact that he is well adored. My question for you all is, do you want him to be a guest again very soon? And do you have questions for Dale? Call my Heartbeat Hotline 1-902-669-4769 and let me know. It's 100% in your hands.

Christina: [00:01:55] So I'm having a really good week. New single and video for Little Princess are coming out April 14th. Might be out by the time some of you hear this. So check the streaming sites. My Bandcamp site. It won't be hard to find. Um. I love launching thing. My grandpa always said 'Don't be too proud', but fuck that Grandpa! I am proud of the work that we all did on the song. Myself, Dale Murray (co-producer, engineer, he mixed it), Dave McNair (mastered it). The musicians on the album and that song -Jordy Comstock, Jason Vautour. Oh my God. Karen Graves collaboration on the strings. Fantastic. I'm proud of the song, the music, all the hard work that went into it. The music video that Brendan Henry dreamed up and I will say, worked his ass off to deliver. It's it's absolutely phenomenal. I mean, I, I really believe that. Check it out, Little Princess on YouTube.

Christina: [00:03:13] I'm proud of the people I work with. I'm proud of Nicole Aline Legault, who did the artwork and the animations for Little Princess, which you're going to start seeing, or they'll be up on my social media. That's a very important collaboration for me. With Nicole, we've been working together since 2017. Love, love, love everything that she does. Also, my fucking accountants are awesome. I just want to throw that in there. But anyway, I'm not expecting to have anything horrible happen anytime soon, but for some reason right now, I'm not getting stressed out about much. I'm working really steadily and enjoying the process and taking breaks when I need it. Taking care, you know, making time for exercise, rest, friends, you know, like all the good stuff that it took me maybe a long time. Like I always made time for exercise. But yeah, I don't know. I think I think, you know, especially since losing my brother in 2013, I have devoted more time to being more present for my friends. And interestingly, the song Little Princess is a song that is about me and my brother. So there I tied that up nicely. Um, anyhow, I had a band practice the other day in Halifax, Dale and I, and it made me even more pumped for the two ECMA showcases we have coming up in Halifax, first week of May, and you can get tickets if you're in Halifax.

Christina: [00:04:57] Um, you can get wristbands that get you into a lot of shows. Check out the ECMA website or my website for links to, to get those different levels of wristbands, I guess. But yeah, the public can buy wristbands and attend those showcases. I've been going through the list of music delegates coming to Halifax from all over the world to meet with all the artists and enjoy the music. I think it's so cool. I actually like meeting with these people and asking them about their work. And oftentimes it ends up in collaborations or performances in the future for me and my band, I don't really think of it like schmoozing, which like, schmoozing does feel gross. I mean, I've done, I have schmoozed in the past. I, um, I just think of, you know, these kinds of, like, meetings and stuff at music conferences, like it's like going to a new school and getting to know, like, make make new friends or maybe not, but I don't know. I just like the freshness of it all and the newness. And you do see people that you know and you've known for years and that's fun, you know, especially after this long ass many years of not seeing people we really miss. So ECMA's I'm pumped. I'm pumped. So I'm looking forward to playing and connecting with people and having a good time. Speaking of a good time. My guest today, Anne Bérubé, is a spiritual teacher who rocks.

Christina: [00:06:29] She's made her life's purpose about helping individuals remember the happiness within them, remember the happiness within them. Ever had a near fatal or mystical experience? Anne has. And it rocked her world. Nothing like a good near-death experience to set you on your path with heart, I say. To date, Anne has written and published two fantastic books, 'Be Feel Think Do' and 'the Burnout Antidote'. I've read them both and I'm rereading them both. They have helped me let go, accept, reconnect with a sense of safety and groundedness. Get the books. You won't regret it. That was pushy. It's your choice. But just saying, they're really awesome. Through her own workshops. Uh, can you tell I'm reading bits of her bio? Because, you know, people spend a lot of time on their bio and like, they know themselves or they hire really good people to write these things to like, so why not? Why not read bits of the bio? I hope people read my bits of my bio. So check out Anne's website anneberube.com - Embodied Spirituality, and there you'll find links to her virtual and in-person retreats, her books, so you can buy them, and her podcast 'Embodied'. I don't want to leave out that Anne also has a plethora or plethora of education under her belt, including no biggie, a PhD, and her work has also allowed her to share the stage with many of her heroes, including best selling authors Wayne Dyer and Deepak Chopra. Enjoy this delightfully enlightening chat with Anne Bérubé.

Christina: [00:08:30] How are you feeling this week? How is life treating you today or this week?

Anne: [00:08:36] It's busy. Yeah, yeah, it's a little bit busy, but, um, it's good. Yeah. January is my birthday month and it's also like the winter, so I feel like I'm always contemplating trying to take a break, trying to, like, you know, I'm often, I'm forced, like, how I lost my voice. Like, that doesn't surprise me because I definitely tend to call to me, to me experiences like that to force me to to stop.

Christina: [00:09:09] So do you? You had just, had you just gotten back from a retreat and then you, and then you became ill? And is this a sign that you need another retreat? But just for you. Yes, we're we're going to talk about retreats, for sure. Yeah. Um, and I want to welcome you to a Chat with Heart Podcast and say thank you for all of your offerings that have been so accessible online. And and I know in person, too, you know, even throughout the pandemic, you've been starting to get back into doing in-person events. But for for a lot of people, myself included, being able to access your teachings online has been so great. I've benefited from both of your books. And I know and I'm someone who rereads, like when I find a good book and I've spread the word, but I reread because I have such a bad memory. But I'm so grateful for these books and your mini courses online, and I'm only just scratching the surface. So thank you. And I want to say all that because my little heartbeat listeners, some of them are just going to get to know you today.

Anne: [00:10:27] Oh, that's wonderful. I'm so happy to be here.

Christina: [00:10:32] I'm glad you're here, too. Okay, so in both your books, you you've said looking back, I can say I was living as the image I had of myself, not my actual self. And that is something. I'm really diving right in here, aren't I? 

Anne: [00:10:51] Please, let's do it.

Christina: [00:10:54] Um, but that is something that really resonates with me. I know it well and you know, at times in my life, I. I feel like I've regressed a bit, but I was wondering if you could share. Share what happened to you and, you know, what was that? What did that, that, that image you had of yourself versus your actual self? Like, what's the diff?

Anne: [00:11:22] Yeah. Yeah, that's a big question. Christina. I know.

Christina: [00:11:26] You know what? Read the book. Read the book. Everybody forget it. Forget it. Next question.

Anne: [00:11:31] Oh, my God. You know, um, I. You know, I'm sure some of your listeners can relate to, you know, growing up with trauma, right? And having an environment in which maybe, you know, it wasn't where they were supported the most or maybe seen the most or validated the most for who they really were. Right. Like I believe like we're all born good and open and expanded and without limits. And we don't yet know how to measure ourselves or to give half of ourselves like we're just fully us. And then, you know, through our our childhood and young adult life, things happen that tell our bodies and our psyches that who I really am, which is like bright and loud and creative and passionate and angry, sometimes does not belong in the world that I'm in. And so then we become an image of ourselves. That's what I mean by that. We become what we think the world wants us to be. Because at the end of the day, a child does not want to not belong. That is like death. So to belong in that family, to belong in that team or in that classroom or to belong in that church group, I need to change this and that about my spontaneous expression. And then I become a version of myself that I've fabricated, often unconsciously, to survive my environment.

Anne: [00:13:12] And so when I was 23 and I was coming back from golfing with with friends and my boyfriend at the time took a left turn into oncoming traffic and a half ton truck hit the car that I was in. I, I had a near-death experience in that moment. But it's not the kind of, you know, where a white tunnel opens up and someone comes and says, 'come over here. Yes, we are your family'. No, it wasn't like that at all. It was more like my body was jarred so violently that I saw like a movie in front of my mind's eyes, my life. But it wasn't the life I'd been living. It was the life that I was meant to live. And I couldn't really explain that super well right after the accident. But now I can. It felt what I saw felt more real than anything else, and it felt more real than anything I'd ever experienced. And so I knew that I had to find a way. When I woke up the next day in the hospital, I knew I had to find a way to merge who I really was with, who I was living as, so that the image, and the self, would just be one. And that was the beginning.

Christina: [00:14:39] So let me guess. It took, what? A week to sort that all out?

Anne: [00:14:44] Yeah, a week. And I was like. I was all healed and ready to teach. No. Yeah.

Christina: [00:14:50] Preach it, sister. So one week. Can you imagine? Can you write that book 'One week to living your best self?'. 

Anne: [00:14:58] Exactly.You will be enlightened in one week. No. And I do know that some, some people like Anita Moorjani, like who've gone through near-death experiences, they're changed immediately and then they don't really go back. But that's not what it was for me at all. I was like, Huh, I have to find a way. So I saw the. The what? Like I knew what I was looking for because I felt it and I'd seen it in the car accident. But I didn't know how. And that took five years for me to get to the how, which I talk a lot about in my books. It's this embodied emotions, and embodied, like soul and presence. And I was not embodied even after the car accident I was very much in my head. I was guided by my intellect, which I was just very good at controlling every aspect of my life. And, you know, I was able to get where I wanted to go with my intellect until I couldn't anymore.

Anne: [00:16:02] And I talk about in the book, the story where I met myself. I came home to my body in, in a program. And that's when I realized the 'how', this is it. My body is the instrument that my soul chose for this human adventure. And knowing God, knowing universe, knowing consciousness, whatever you want to call it, knowing my divinity has to happen through the cells of my body. And I say below the neck because up above the neck we get lost in the stories and the ego and the past and the future. But as we sink into our bodies and bring our attention and our breath into the body, we're here now and we are with our divinity. And then that's where, that's where the remembering of who we are happens. That's where the healing happens. That's where we get hints and glimpses of our gifts and our talents and why we came. 

Christina: [00:17:07] This morning, I put on your, is it called Earth meditation? It's like, 14 minutes. And so I just committed to making that part of my my morning yoga and meditation routine. Because what you described about, well, if you're not embodied, then you're disembodied. Yeah. Yeah, that's that's, that's, uh, I don't, I don't fully understand this, but I have been leaning on my head and feeling disembodied and it's very uncomfortable and not fun. And so, but I know that I haven't always been this way. But I have also been this way. And when you said that you saw the 'the what'. 

Anne: [00:17:56] Yes.

Christina: [00:17:56] That, you know, and a near-death experience, um, you were able to see that, that is like it sounds like a huge gift because seeing or knowing the what can be so hard for people but when you know the what, my head anyway tells me, at least then you can move backwards to figure out like some of you know. But what I don't, I mean, I'm glad you I'm certainly glad you didn't see the light and somebody didn't pull you over to the other side. But do you do you see it as a huge gift?

Anne: [00:18:31] Yeah. I mean, it took me a while to see it as a gift because at the time I was in academia and there was no one around me, including my partner at the time, that could understand. I could barely understand what had happened. And I judged myself for even thinking or for even believing what I experienced because I thought that that's not logical. And so and then, you know, my boyfriend at the time, we'd been together for a long time and he's very rational, very, you know, intellectual as well. And so I and I didn't have a lot of friends around that could that could understand that. So I didn't see it as a gift right away. I saw it as there is my weird and again, this part of me that I've just been suppressing and I used to think of that part of myself as she's out of control. She's not proper, she's not valid. I need to tame her. And there she was again like. And so I was a little a little upset for a while. But, you know, the initial feeling waking up was, oh, I have to I have to find a way to to get back on track. Like, I know this was really real. But then my intellect came in really quickly and I was like, I don't know. I don't know if I want that part of me to come back. And so but I do now. I see it as a gift. I see it as it was supposed to happen that way because I guess I wasn't meant to be off track for too, too long. You know, it's almost like my higher self is like, Oh, look at her. She's so cute. She's doing all these things. But we have to. We. We have to. We have work to do. So let's bring your back. Yeah.

Christina: [00:20:23] And was there ever, was there ever a time, I've I've wondered this for myself because, you know, mental illness can fall upon anybody and certainly there, there's a genetic component for certain individuals, but there doesn't necessarily have to be. So have you ever had the experience where you've gone like, you know, I'm having these thoughts, and feelings of this life I want to lead, but like, honestly, is this like mental, a mental illness that I'm having these thoughts because other people don't seem to think that I am in my right mind right now?

Anne: [00:21:04] Yeah, there's definitely, absolutely. And I mean, mental illness is definitely an interesting topic because it is linked to forgetting who we really are. And so if we hadn't forgotten, and these things that are unexplainable would happen to us, or the feeling of knowing it would have happened to us, it wouldn't be a problem. We wouldn't be doubting ourselves and the people around us would know with clarity that this is who we are, right? And so the doubt comes from the division that happened. And then this division. We have a lot of reassurance around us that, you know, well this mental illness. So this is what you should do. This is where you should go, this is what you should take. And I'm not saying that you shouldn't because there's places for all of it. And I do often recommend people take the medication that they need. So that's not what I'm saying at all. It's just that there is a very, you know, a line there that's that's porous. And often it can kind of lead on one side or the other. And so it's, I think it's really important to know, okay, the idea is at the end of the day, I want to own all of myself. Like I want to have self agency. So how much do I give power away to other people's opinion and to these labels? And are other people's opinion in the labels actually defining who I am instead of me? Searching and owning and reclaiming who I really am, both go hand in hand. But at the end of the day, you really, you're the one going to bed with yourself at night, and you're the one who you're going to be with yourself at the end of your life, like you're dying with yourself. And so this relationship with your own self has to be has to be clear and honest, Um, and we have to reclaim that power.

Christina: [00:23:23] Sounds like it's going to take time.

Anne: [00:23:25] Oh, yeah.

Christina: [00:23:27] Damn it. Oh, so annoying.

Anne: [00:23:32] But, you know, if you think about a lot of the people listening or maybe, you know, you and I know myself as little girls, like we. We saw new things that nobody else could validate, right? Like we would, we'd be in the presence of an adult, and they would say words that didn't match how they felt. And we would be like, you're saying this, but I can feel you differently.

Christina: [00:23:57] You're lying.

Anne: [00:23:59] You're lying. You're literally lying. Exactly. And so, if that doesn't create a mental issue in, in people, like what will. Right. Like, it's like, so now I'm supposed to just believe you when my instinct tells me this is about something else? It's about honesty, right?

Christina: [00:24:22] I have some spider senses for sure, and I want to listen to them always. But there is a voice in my head sometimes that goes, Hmm, Christina, maybe you were wrong about that feeling or that person. Or maybe. Do you know what I mean? Like, maybe. Am I? Is it linked to something in my past? Maybe this is where you talk about when you know, in order to know where you're going, you have to know where you came from. And then is there something to this idea of like, sometimes you might have a feeling about something that is actually you're hanging on to something from your past, and if you don't recognize that, then you won't be able to identify whether it's relevant in the moment. Is that, or should you just always trust your gut?

Anne: [00:25:18] So the thing is that we're so not used to trusting our guts that then when we want to, we don't know if it's telling the truth or not. And then we see it as black and white. But it really isn't if you trust your gut and it was the wrong thing to do. Okay, move on. Now, your spidey sense, your intuition got adjusted. You understood something about how your soul speaks to you through your body. You're not supposed to know it right away. And so I think it's important to give ourselves that permission to fail and to be wrong, because that's how we strengthen our intuition.

Christina: [00:26:00] Oh, I like that. That's a good reminder that it's, we talk a lot about failing, and admit our failures on this podcast, and celebrate them. But you're absolutely you're absolutely right. Yeah.

Anne: [00:26:13] Like I'm going to, I'm going to go with my gut. I'm going to go, Oh, shit, I fell flat on my face. Yeah. And then it's like, Oh, good, I'm learning something. You that's how you become more intuitive is by trying.

Christina: [00:26:29] I suppose if it involves another person, like a working relationship or a personal relationship, then at that point it's a, it's a big, um, a big positive to even go if it's necessary to go back and say, I made a mistake. I recognize that moving forward, I know better. We don't need to talk about it for hours or go to therapy.

Anne: [00:26:54] Yeah. I mean, I think that, you know, that direction wasn't quite right, but it felt right at the time. And I can promise you I'll make more mistakes in the future.

Christina: [00:27:05] Yeah. I can promise.

Anne: [00:27:07] You promise. Because the people around you have to be okay with you trying things, especially as an artist, right?

Christina: [00:27:14] Yeah, it's true. It's true.

Anne: [00:27:15] The only way to get to the gold is failing. Failing, Failing, Failing, failing, failing. Ah, here's the gold. Failing, Failing, Failing. Failing, Failing, Failing.

Christina: [00:27:25] Highly recommend it. It's...we're so afraid to do it. Particularly when it comes with, you know, financial finances attached to it, where you're worried. It's like this. I have to make this decision, this money count. It's that's a real hard one because it's easy to make mistakes if it isn't attached to some kind of financial loss or your sense of security, I suppose.

Anne: [00:27:51] Oh, yeah. Yeah, absolutely. So the, you know, the first chakra is, is the root chakra and that's the earth and that's the safety. And when it comes to levels of thoughts, safety is number one. So I cannot entertain being creative, talk about enlightenment and actually like fully surrender to who I'm becoming if that very first basic need is not met. So I remember a long time ago, someone asked Deepak in an interview, they said, you should really go teach like. Meditation in the underdeveloped countries or the war torn countries. And he's like, No, they need food. They need a shelter. They need to know. So for us, it translates with if you're always in fight or flight. With finance or with physical, you know, relationship that's not physically safe or your home is not safe, you know, or there's an emotional lack of safety. Is very difficult to tap into creativity.

Christina: [00:29:11] Oh, that's a good one.

Anne: [00:29:12] Which is like third chakra, then identity linked to it. And then speaking that creativity.

Christina: [00:29:19] I think, as Business owners and creators, we forget. Or we struggle sometimes with that, you know, making sure we feel safe, and finances can be a part of that before we, you know, that can take a lot to get to that, and that it's okay to do the things you have to do to get safe, whatever that means for you.

Anne: [00:29:46] Exactly. Absolutely. So important. And sometimes as spiritual seekers, we don't validate the importance of safety because we think it's a low level concern. But it's actually the ground if you don't have a ground. Yeah. Stand on.

Christina: [00:30:04] So important.

Anne: [00:30:05] Not much can. It's like a tree with no roots.

Christina: [00:30:09] It's a floppy tree.

Anne: [00:30:10] It's a floppy tree. It could get knocked down very easily.

Christina: [00:30:15] Yeah. Yeah. The Burnout Antidote. Remember this Anne?

Anne: [00:30:19] It's so 2022.

Christina: [00:30:22] I know. I'm kidding. It's so we. Oh, wait. You got another one lined up. You know, burnout is linked to all of a lot of what we're talking about, what you're sharing today. And so I want to pick that apart a bit because it's so important. And, you know, I, I struggle and I wish I should find another word for struggle. It's a challenge for me not burning out. I'm a workaholic. So last night I did the complimentary Burnout Antidote Quiz on your website.

Anne: [00:30:57] Yes.

Christina: [00:30:57] And the results confirmed what I had thought my relationship to love was.

Anne: [00:31:05] Oh.

Christina: [00:31:05] Which I've got to say, I was a little, I was like, damn it, I. I'm.

Anne: [00:31:13] The quiz is right.

Christina: [00:31:14] Yeah. Yeah. The quiz is. I think it is absolutely accurate. Unfortunately, I'm human disembodied at the moment.

Anne: [00:31:21] Okay.

Christina: [00:31:22] But the good news is, that you said that this can change.

Anne: [00:31:27] Of course. That's the whole point.

Christina: [00:31:30] Oh, I was so scared that I would be stuck, but I was like, I know. I kind of know how this might end up because I can feel it. I can feel it in me. And it's been something I've been struggling with, but I didn't understand that it was related to, um, you know, my relationship with love. Yeah. Um, but the good news is, and for anybody, I really. I highly recommend listeners go on to an site and do the quiz. And of course there's other mini courses and, and retreats you can access from her site. But there's also. Which is great there always has to be some hope right? Some tools for like, you know. So I love that it was just so simply laid out for me what I can do to improve my relationship with love. So thank you for that. But let me back it up, okay? Because burnout, um, you know, I think it can be sneaky. Like, I think we think of burnout as, like, I can't get out of bed anymore, which some people might burn out. They may just call it or mistake it sometimes for depression. Um.

Anne: [00:32:42] It's like, for sure.

Christina: [00:32:43] Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Um. But what about like, I mean, sometimes you probably are burned out, but you just don't know it. Like what can burnout look like? What does it look like for you?

Anne: [00:32:59] Oh, my gosh. It's a good question. So for me, the reason why I wrote the book is because it happened to me and it was a crisis in meaning. And at the time, I didn't know that's what was going on. But I was annoyed at myself because I thought everything that I worked for, and towards, now I have and I am resentful.

Christina: [00:33:23] Oh, yeah. Bingo. I mean. Sorry. Yay! But thank you at the same time.

Anne: [00:33:30] Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. And so in the book, I describe this moment where my husband came into my office and I was angrily typing an email like. 

Christina: [00:33:41] So it's not funny, but I can just relate. I can relate, you know?

Anne: [00:33:46] And he said, Are you okay? I said, Oh, I think I need to refer this client to someone who still likes people.

Christina: [00:33:53] Oh. Awesome. Yeah, awesome.

Anne: [00:33:57] Yeah. So for a spiritual coach, let me tell you, I was a bit ashamed of that, but it was the truth. So what, what I realized and so then ensued, you know, nine months of work. I actually stopped seeing clients for a while because I was like, I know I'm meant to do this. But it's not working right now. So what is this about? And what I realized after the work is that I was helping because I needed to be needed and that my service, even though I was meant to serve in it, came from my soul. The how I was doing it was coming from my trauma. And so when you serve from a place of trauma, eventually you you burn out, you hit the wall. Like you can't be that thing to the people around you because your cup empties very quickly. A lot faster than if. You know, it was coming directly from your core essence and not from your trauma. And so that was such an interesting period of my life that I wanted to write a book about it because I knew a lot of people who. Are of service like that is what they do. Like even you with your music like that is what we do. We want. We know we're here to bring an experience for people and we care deeply about this mission. And so how can we not throw in the towel and stop it all together? This is this is the book. It's an antidote to this crisis in meaning that happens. So the why has to be because it's who I am, not because I'm needed. Because I'm good at it. Because people like it when I do it. Because I make money with it. Because I've always done it. Those are not good reasons.

Christina: [00:36:10] You know your book, and there are a few other encounters I had in recent months. Um, including reading another book that my friends Mike and Kristen, they have a podcast and they wrote a book about their adventures. And so I'm reading your book, I'm reading theirs. And I, you know as mentioned earlier in this episode that I've been feeling disembodied. And what you described about your own work and feeling, you know, feeling ashamed about about that as well. And I've worked so hard and then resentful and hard on myself. So, you know, finally recognizing all this and going, I just need to get back to the source. I said thank you to Mike and Kristen. I want to say thank you to you as well, because I think reading this book definitely, you know, made me kind of put my money where my mouth is and go, like you, this isn't going to get better for you. You actually have to you just need to do something.

Anne: [00:37:16] Yeah, and sometimes it is. Well, congratulations for taking that step because that is huge. It's so hard to love ourselves that much.

Christina: [00:37:25] It's pretty hard. Yeah, it's hard on the pocketbook, too. It's like, you know.

Anne: [00:37:29] Yeah. So congratulations on taking that step because that is probably the hardest one because I think I talk about I do talk about this in the book is the first like, yeah, I need to do something about this. But then the second chapter is like, I bet you're already thinking that now is not the time or you don't have the money or you know. So that's the second thing that comes right away is like, well. Maybe next year or It's not that bad.

Christina: [00:37:54] It's not that bad. I can handle it.

Anne: [00:37:56] Like a really important step is to double down on your resolve.

Christina: [00:38:01] Double down.

Anne: [00:38:02] Yeah. Double down on what you know that you need. And that is true. So and then it's like, well, I'm selfish. Do I really need this. Like, who says I need this? I say, I need this. That's enough. It's enough.

Christina: [00:38:14] And, Anne, Anne said I need to. Yeah. And you know, I've, I've found myself, I find myself looking at other people around me that I love who are working their butts off and, and and, you know, I'm not I'm not perceiving that they are complaining. And so I, you know, I forget that we are separate sort of separate people and that maybe somebody else is already tapped into, um, tapped into that limitless source and, you know, or maybe not. Maybe they're struggling and they're just hiding it, you know, as we can do as well and not to compare because oftentimes if you say, hey, I'm burnt out or I'm, you know, but it appears your life is good from other people. Other people might say might say something like, what have you got to complain about? I mean, or, you know.

Anne: [00:39:08] Has anyone ever said that actually to you, except for maybe your parents?

Christina: [00:39:14] Not when I've. Except for your parents. You know what? It's it's. Yeah, that's a good point. Not my friends.

Anne: [00:39:22] No. Nobody who, like, actually resonates with you.

Christina: [00:39:26] You're right. It's true. I think it's been said like, less so about burnout, if I've ever admitted that. But if about, um, stress or feeling anxiety, I think that for some reason that's still, um, it's that anxiety mentioning that fear that carries a lot of stigma still that people don't really understand what that means and they think, what's the big deal? You have everything, you know. So, I mean, again, none of my friends or people that I resonate with would say that. But people have said that in my life. What have you got to be sad or anxious about? You know?

Anne: [00:40:07] And when people say that, that's 100% about them. When people say that 100% they don't give themselves the permission to feel what they feel. And so they're going to say this to you almost to test it. Right? Like it's, it's always about something they're going through and then they're projecting it onto you. And then it is totally sticking to us because we have doubts about what we feel.

Christina: [00:40:41] Are you nailed it. I love this.

Anne: [00:40:46] Right. So someone with anxiety is someone with high passion, someone with anxiety, someone has high life force moving through them. Big mission. And it's just too small in the body and it's too small around them to fit this magnitude. And then and then it was suppressed and over and over and over. And then we become the suppressor of it because we learned that that's what we should do. So we become the the one that actually puts us down with our inner dialogue and then our doubts about ourselves. So when you say other people don't seem to have that same, you know, experience, they're not on the same path as you. True, Right. And so someone might be here to actually experience this steady human experience.

Christina: [00:41:45] Yeah.

Anne: [00:41:46] And that is what their soul wanted. And so, and then we come and we're like, I am here to, like, accelerate my evolution. I'm here to incarnate all of my light and all of my creativity. And it's going to be messy and it's going to be explosions here and there because I never done this before to this magnitude. And I need people around me who understand that they're okay with me exploding here and there because how else am I going to learn how to channel this incredible amount of energy into this body if I don't try and speak and yell and scream and stomp?

Christina: [00:42:33] This is so helpful. Like, I totally am grateful that you have your PhD and of all your near-death experience and your I mean, seriously. Though, like it's so it's just. It's it's. Oh, thank you. Thank you. This is really helpful.

Christina: [00:42:50] But I read in your book that you had said the things we think we're doing to recharge are robbing us of our core essence and not actually allowing us to tap into our gifts and serve others or take care of ourselves. And that retreats are a way to remedy this, which resonated so hard with me. But so do you. Were you talking about things like binge watching our favorite shows or like eating a whole bag of potato chips in one sitting like, but a little too often?

Anne: [00:43:23] Like, yeah, yeah. No, So, so a little too often. That's, that's really the key, Like, so I'm all for entertainment, like.

Christina: [00:43:33] What are you binge watching? Come on. Oh, my gosh.

Anne: [00:43:36] Uh, I just finished. There's. There's a there's a good show on Crave and it's called The Vow, and it's about this cult that happened in the US and in Canada called Nixon. It's so good. I actually really needed to watch the whole thing because when they start talking, it sounds a little bit like how I talk. And I was like, Oh no.

Christina: [00:43:58] Oh, I do that all the time where I'm like, Uh oh, is this me?

Anne: [00:44:01] Like is this a cult? So, and I'm like, next episode, next episode? I'm like, Where does this go off the rail? I need to see exactly where this goes off the rails because. Yeah.

Christina: [00:44:12] Oh, so you're doing homework so that you don't develop a cult.

Anne: [00:44:16] Exactly. It's like, what's the difference between me and them? No, no, big difference. Big difference. Like, there was definitely a lot of manipulation and sexual assaults.

Christina: [00:44:27] I don't feel manipulated or sexually assaulted by you Anne. 

Anne: [00:44:31] Good I'm so glad. 

Christina: [00:44:32] Just, putting that out there just, yet.

Anne: [00:44:34] But really truly like it is a good documentary to see how people will give up their power very easily to a spiritual teacher because they're desperately looking for that figure like a mother or father that's going to finally say you are enough. And as a as a teacher, I'm really careful with that because I don't want followers. Like I don't want people who think that I know something they don't. You know, I want to remind them of what they already have and and then and then empower them to to kind of just go out in the world and do their thing. And so. But you. It's inevitable. Inevitable. Like I did, that I put people on pedestals, like with Wayne and with Anita and with my mom and like. And so when I would do that, I'd be like, They have something I don't have. So I'm not enough. I'm not complete unless I have them in my life. And until I realized, holy shit, like they're me. They are. I'm seeing myself in them and I think it's them, but it's me. And then completely being that, you know, the father or the mother to myself and then, you know, so I think I think it is really important to to to see the very important documentary to see because the language can become quite, um confusing because it's close to the way we work, like when we do work with people, but then it's like, okay, if you, if you don't, if it's, if it's about you and it's not about the person you're helping, then you're in the wrong business. It's got to be always about the other person and their healing and their growth and their independence and their self agency.

Christina: [00:46:33] Yo, you mean as a spiritual teacher? Okay, yeah. Yeah.

Anne: [00:46:38] And I think as an artist too, maybe like you're doing, it's like this love, right? Like it's about loving them.

Christina: [00:46:48] Oh, do you mean, like, um, loving? Because I think there is an element of learning to love. For me, it's been about learning to love myself and find my truth. My story.

Anne: [00:47:01] Yes.

Christina: [00:47:02] Like, really? Which is so hard for me because we are raised to not focus on the self and that we don't share. Certain things and then carrying the shame. So self love. I'm still working on that. But then once a song is comes into actuality and is recorded, I don't think I do. I don't know how much of that I do for myself. I feel like that comes from this drive to share and connect. I mean, it does get a little, um, sometimes I forget because I get wrapped up in the business of it all and the details, which are not always fun, but when I try to get back to the source and ask my I've asked myself why, why do you write songs and why and then why do you perform them and share them? And why do you have like, you know, social media and all this stuff? Ask yourself, why do you why are you doing this stuff? Yeah, it comes down to, well, wanting connection. And then yeah, I think, I think love is a part of it. Love and.

Anne: [00:48:26] Connection. Connection is love for sure.

Christina: [00:48:29] Okay, good. Oh, then yeah, I do it for love, for sure. Here comes another great reminder from the Burnout Antidote. Are you ready?

Anne: [00:48:38] Yep.

Christina: [00:48:39] Because you you tapped into, you said this a little bit about this earlier. Your job is not to help everyone. Your job is to create the greatest impact by honoring, protecting, and expressing your unique gifts, which is, as I said earlier, that it's so. It makes so much sense to me, resonates. And I'm like, Yes. But then it's like, Oh, I have to unlearn like what I was. I wasn't raised to focus on my gifts. I was, you know, raised to look at what other people need and try to to fix that.

Anne: [00:49:18] Yes.

Christina: [00:49:19] Good reminder, though.

Anne: [00:49:20] It is. It is. And it is like you're right that it is completely counter culture like it's counter, how we've been told and especially in spiritual or, you know, spirituality or even like in spiritual communities, even religious communities, that to be a good person you have to be a martyr. And and that's how we were kind of shown and modeled like selflessness is service. But yeah, you could you could give everything you've got and die from it and okay, but there's this push inside of us to actually really incarnate our gifts in the, in the, in the way that we want it to come and express them and then to use them in that way. And we, we, we forgot how to do that and we won't feel fulfilled until we do. And fulfillment is really, really important because it is like, you know, imagine celebrating your 95th birthday and you with your friends and everybody says like, wow, like she she lived her life the way she wanted to live it. And then you feel so good because you've you've actually felt fulfilled because you you lived the life that you wanted to live, not the one that other people wanted you to live. And you know, Bronnie, in her book, The Five Top, Five Regrets of the Dying, that is the top the top list.

Christina: [00:50:59] The topist.

Anne: [00:51:00] The topist. Yeah. It's, I wish I'd lived the life I wanted to live. Not the one others wanted me to live. And so that's that really matters to the soul as it transitions back into the, you know, other side or, you know, next lifetime. Is that what you decide you were coming to do? You did. And what you decided to do was for your highest good. And so when you let other people, you feel like you're letting other people down because you're not the martyr anymore. It feels like you're not the good person. But actually what you're doing by staying in that relationship in the way that it was, you're enabling them to stay the same. So you're actually not loving them. You think you're loving them, but you're actually enabling them because they're getting from you this energy and they're not learning. They're not growing.

Christina: [00:51:58] Yes.

Anne: [00:51:58] So you remove yourself from that and then you focus on yourself. And then when you feel full and you you engage service from that place of fullness, you love the person in front of you way more than you did when you were depleted and a martyr. And it's powerful. It's the impact is powerful. So the people who were left behind sometimes feel a, I want you to stay the way you were. I don't want you to change. I need you that way. That's okay. Let them fuss. It's fine. Because you loving yourself to connect and to serve in the way that's meaningful to you is actually loving them more than what you were doing.

Christina: [00:52:44] It's powerful stuff.

Anne: [00:52:45] It's the difference between embodied and disembodied empathy. We think that empathy is about taking on the feeling of someone else, but when I'm doing that, I'm depleting myself and then I don't have access to my force and my strength and my power.

Christina: [00:53:02] Yeah, that's, that's not something we learn. I mean, we've learned or I've ever heard of before. I've heard you speak of that and like, Oh, that makes so much sense when you think about your life and what you want. And we can both speak to making travel a part of our work and our routine, really. And you, you. You take people to the most beautiful places in the world and have these wonderful retreats. Um, and it looks like a lot of fun. I bet you witness a lot of tears as well. But like, all healing. All all good. All good. But was that part of. Was that I mean, I'm assuming that was by design. You're like, well I. I'm drawn to these places. Like, what draws you to some of these places? How do you select where the retreats are going to be?

Anne: [00:53:56] Well, when I, you know, when I after my car accident and I had that experience, I figured out the what, like how I can live like that. I started to study with different teachers. I studied with Luis LeBron, who's out of Ottawa. I studied with Deepak Chopra, and I studied with a shaman named Laura Kealoha Yardley. She's a shaman in Hawaii. And I completely fell in love, like with the work that she was doing. And so I went back 3 or 4 times to do intensives with her. And so one day I wanted to come back and she said, Nope, you're done. You have to teach it now. And so I. Kawai when I first went there, I just fell in love with it. It felt like home. And I've never been to China. I've never been to Thailand. I've ever been to Costa Rica. Like I've never but I've been there 14 times. Like, it's just my. It's home. It's home. It's home. So when I'm there, I'm, I'm really myself. And so I wanted to share that. I wanted to share the island with people and I wanted to share the work that I learned from Laura, which is Lemurian Huna. And so it took a while to find the right place to do the program. And so in the meantime, I did do it in other places, like we went to Turks and Caicos and I did it at the Omega Center in New York. And so it's, um, you know, it's kind of, it's kind of just selfish in a way. I just want to share that with people.

Christina: [00:55:28] I think that's I think that's great. I can relate to that feeling of going somewhere and feeling like home. And I, I'm not sure why and I don't think I think it surprises a lot of people when I, Germany was that for me, Central Europe and and I don't know if you knew initially that you would be there 14 or more times.

Anne: [00:55:48] No, I did not.

Christina: [00:55:50] But that feeling of going somewhere and feeling like, it just feels like home, like it's a it's kind of a weird feeling, but I can totally relate to that. And I say go with it.

Anne: [00:56:01] Yeah, absolutely. There's a place in the world that the outer landscape reflects your inner landscape, and when you find it, there's this alignment that happens and yeah, magical.

Christina: [00:56:14] So you did the work, you're doing the work at some point you decided to share your story, put it into words as we know, how important we know how important sharing your story is. But I don't know if everybody gets it always, and that's fine. They don't have to. But like, I think it's so interesting because I know I've heard it many other creators say this, too, like a lot of people would say, like, I don't know if I would be alive if I hadn't. Found a way to tell or know my story and share it. I wonder if there was a at what point that you. So I'm going to write a book which first which became your first book. Be Feel Think Do.

Anne: [00:57:05] Yeah.

Christina: [00:57:07] And then you were probably hooked after that and you're like, okay, I just, I this was hard, but I got to do it again.

Anne: [00:57:13] Yeah. No, I, um. I mean, did you always know you wanted to do music?

Christina: [00:57:20] No. Looking back I knew I was always connected when I was doing music, there was something that was like, there was a natural ability. I wasn't. I wasn't particularly, I didn't excel at, at certain things musically, but in terms of like, rhythm and move, wanting to move and singing, those things kind of came naturally. Um, but it wasn't until, I wasn't, I didn't have a near-death experience, but my father died and that, that was, thank you, I think that was a.

Anne: [00:57:56] Life changing experience.

Christina: [00:57:58] Of course, you know.

Anne: [00:57:59] And how old were you when that happened?

Christina: [00:58:02] I was 19. And it's such a, it's such a complicated, you know, relationship that he and I had. Um, but, you know, it took me a couple of years, but it was an awakening, going through that, witnessing his, his transition and everything. And, um, and then, you know, being at my, I'd say, I'd say bottom rock bottom for a couple of, for a bit, not too long I suppose a good year then moved to Austin, Texas. And um, and at that, it was when I started seeing singer songwriters live, I'd never gone to see a storyteller in that, venue, that type of experience before. It was transformative. And I, there was something in me that was just compelled with, I want to try and do this thing. How can I, this? I just I felt compelled, obsessed with like, I just want to try and do this. So that was it for me. But yeah. What about you?

Anne: [00:59:07] Well, it was similar where talking to people like I used to organize these little workshops when I was like 12 and they were like six years old. And my neighborhood, like, they, they would come in like my basement and I would do these workshops called Creativity and Intuition. So I always wanted to gather people and, and then share with them what works for me. Like that's always been something that I've been drawn and I used to write in my journal like all the time. I have stacks and stacks from when I was younger all the way to when I was 25 or something. And so I that came naturally, right? But it wasn't until, um, you know, I and I wanted to write a book. So I thought going into doing my PhD would be a good way to start because I'll have to write a thesis. And then my friend, like when I graduated and I had submitted my thesis and defended it and all done, she said, Wow, imagine all that attention and focus you put on writing your thesis. Now you could put it on writing your own book. And I thought that was so big for me because I needed to write. I needed someone else to keep me accountable. Like with the thesis, I had to write it. So now I was the only one that I needed to be accountable to. So that was a very different experience because there's no one else. No one's waiting for my manuscript. No one's like, I don't have a publishing contract. I have to be the one that wants it enough to to to make it happen.

Anne: [01:00:40] And so, I started I started writing in 2008. And at that point I had studied a lot and I kind of knew what I wanted to say. Um, but just like you, like I went to, in Toronto, I went to a Hay House event I was working with, with Wayne Dyer at the time. I was producing events for him and he'd invited me to come see the event, like I can do it in Toronto and hang out with him. And I remember seeing like Chris, Chris Carr, who's the author of Crazy Sexy Cancer and the way she just was on stage and so natural and just commanded the room and made people laugh and made people feel things. And I thought, that's I want to do that. I want to find a way to do that. And so similar to you just experiencing something that just comes and gets you in a way that you're like, okay, that's got to be me because it feels really, um, so then, so then, you know, writing, writing the book that could help me also, you know, do that. So yeah, that's kind of how it happened. But the book, the first book took seven years to write because I was not that kind of a writer. I was an academic writer from my training in academia. So it was really boring reading me so boring. I had to relearn how to write so that it would be like accessible and not pretentious.

Christina: [01:02:10] What are you super pumped about this year?

Anne: [01:02:15] Oh, that's a good question.

Christina: [01:02:18] Is there one thing and it could be something simple?

Anne: [01:02:21] Well, I am super pumped about the next book. Um, I feel it, like I'm excited about it and it feels different, and it feels time for it. And so I'm excited about the energy of it. It's always such a fun feeling to be at the beginning of a I'm sure you can relate to a song or like an album or like something. You just can feel it in your bones and but you don't have the words yet. So, um, so I'm excited about that. And, um, completely human level. I just am in love with basketball right now.

Christina: [01:03:03] Playing or watching playing. Oh, and you, you were on the university team? You mentioned earlier. 

Anne: [01:03:09] When I was younger.Yeah, when I was younger. And, and so I joined the Nova Scotia Women's League. And I'm like, I'm 45. I'm on one of the oldest on the team. And so it's hard. But Christina, like, you know, being so serious and always in my head, like, really? Playing is exciting for me right now. Just play. Yeah, yeah. And don't do enough of that. And so I'm just I'm just excited to play and I know that the book comes through Joy I know that. And so and it is about joy and light and so, yeah, completely human.

Christina: [01:03:52] I want to play. More too, this year. So let's, let's, no pressure, but like let's sort of try for that. Let's when we connect again, we'll be like, So what have you been playing a lot lately? And I don't mean music. I mean like, um, I don't know, dancing, running, doing, trying new fun things like laughing, being a goofball. Um.

Anne: [01:04:16] Exactly. Exactly. It's so important to just forget and just be with the play and the curiosity and the adventure, you know, not knowing where it's going to go. That's how you were as kids. It's just not knowing where it's going to go and it's okay.

Christina: [01:04:31] Are you still doing the podcast Embodied?

Anne: [01:04:33] I am. I am. It's not like super consistent, but I there was an episode right before Christmas and then I'm doing one next week, so there'll be another one. So it's not a consistency, but that is something I want to do more consistently, consistently. So.

Christina: [01:04:50] Well, take it from someone who doesn't launch consistently either. Okay. It's okay. Do you know my initial goal with launching my podcast was that I would do four episodes a year, and I thought that was like, fine. I was like, I can't commit to anything else, but now I'm kind of obsessed with it, but I don't. I'm like, if it's three weeks till the next one.. like right now I'm stockpiling them and then Dale has to edit them, and it's like a very time consuming, right?

Anne: [01:05:18] Yeah, yeah, it is. yeah.

Christina: [01:05:20] So I say, do you really want to get more? If you do, that's great, Anne. But if you. Don't.

Anne: [01:05:26] Yeah, I know.

Christina: [01:05:28] That's okay too, because people have to catch up. I got to catch up to all your episodes.

Anne: [01:05:32] Mhm. Mhm. Exactly. Exactly. I like that. Thank you for saying that. I guess what I want is to do more podcasts. So create space so that I can do more because I want to and let other things go that are not resonating anymore.

Christina: [01:05:50] Yeah, I love that. Yeah.

Anne: [01:05:52] So yeah, so definitely you can send people to my podcast, and you can send them to my website

Christina: [01:05:57] I will. Yeah, I'm going to send them everywhere. Everywhere.

Anne: [01:06:03] Everywhere. Thank you so much for having me. I really had a good time. Really enjoyed our chat.

Christina: [01:06:07] It's such a privilege and a pleasure.

Song 'I Don't Want to Say Goodbye to You': [01:06:16] It's love. I don't want to say goodbye to you. Oh, I don't want to say goodbye to you.

Heartbeat Hotline: [01:06:31] Welcome to the Heartbeat Hotline. 1-902-669-4769. I'm the host of A Chat with Heart Podcast, Christina Martin and I'm so excited you called. Leave me your question, suggestion for the podcast or a comment about this episode. Please be aware your message may be used on the podcast and social media. Tell me your name, where you're calling from, and it's also fine if you want to remain anonymous. Thanks for listening. Have a great fucking day.

Christina: [01:07:05] Thanks for listening to A Chat with Heart Podcast, produced and written by me, Christina Martin, and co-produced and engineered by Dale Murray. Check out Dale's website dalemurray.ca. The podcast theme song 'Talk About It' and 'I Don't Want to Say Goodbye to You' were written by me and recorded by Dale Murray. You can find my music on Bandcamp and all the places you stream music. Visit my Patreon page to become a monthly or yearly supporter of this podcast and my music endeavors. If you're new to Patreon, it's a membership platform that helps creators get paid. Sign up at patreon.com/christinamartin. I would love it if you had time to share rate. Leave a review and subscribe to A Chat with Heart on all the places you listen to podcasts. Wishing you, my little heartbeats, a great day.